Courses with Two Clubhouses

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

We are currently working on a project that may involve the construction of two clubhouse for one 18-hole course.  While I know that there are a few courses out there with two clubhouses near the same first hole (usually in the form of a public clubhouse and a private clubhouse), this particular project would involve the two clubhouses being at opposite ends of the property.  Each clubouse also being the halfway house for golfers starting on the opposite nine.

Has anyone heard of such a setup on any existing course?

[rjsimper]

I've never heard of it but the first question that comes to my mind is "why?"

Aside from the public/private issue, what are the main reasons this is being considered?  Does it have anything to do with the ability to hold 2 separate simultaneous special events without shared parking/exposure to one another?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Jeremy,

Once upon a time, Leven and Lundin Links in Fife (which are now two very good eighteen hole courses) were one eighteen hole course which each club starting at opposite ends of the course.

That is not a modern day example but it obviously worked at one stage.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Jeremy,

Ryan's beat me to it. After reading your post, I immediately thought , why?

[Bruce Katona]

We had this for a time at a project I worked on....two sets of staff, overhead, utility expenses, etc....what a money loser (while there are exceptions, clubhouses are almost always cash flow negative for a club - why would you then want two??)

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

It's a long story, but basically the golf course will stradle two municipalities.  Each municipality would thus build it own clubhouse, which will also act as a kind of community centre for the town.

[Bob_Huntley]

Analagous to, but in a very different vein, is the construction of the accomodations at the Calistoga Ranch in the Napa Valley. The site was an old RV park and the planning commission would not allow a structure that occupied a bigger footprint than the ages old caravans.

Today there are free standing luxurious lodges  but the bedroom is independent of the sitting room...one goes outside to get back inside. Strange.


Bob

[Brad Klein]

36-hole Pumpkin Ridge in Oregon has two clubhouses for its private and public courses respectively, at opposite ends of a 320-yard driving range.

If your municipalities are really into a sense of community they'd build one. It sounds to me like those are two awfully myopic planning agencies you've got there. One clubhouse is a big enough waste. Two are just ridiculous.

[TEPaul]

If we, GMGC, had moved to Ardrossan Farm we probably would've had three clubhouses but they are all pre-existing and quite old. One of them is probably too big and too grand for the likes of my membership but nevertheless there it was!

[Joe Hancock]

I assume both clubhouses differ in the function and/or amenities they provide. If so, Crystal Downs fits the criteria.

Joe

[Mark Smolens]

The "halfway house" at Rich Harvest in Sugar Grove has 3 or 4 bedrooms upstairs, and is bigger than any home that my parents could ever have afforded, raising 3 kids. . .  Plus, there's more beer in that huge fridge than any membership could ever consume.

[tlavin]

Knollwood Club, in north suburban Chicago, has three clubhouses.  One is a locker room/restaurant and bar for men.  One is a locker room/restaurant and bar for women and the third is for all joint activities.  It is a particularly inspired bit of architectural planning, IMHO.

[tlavin]

Dave,

I forgot about Shoreacres, but you're exactly correct.  And Shoreacres has that unbelievable clubhouse on top of the bluff overlooking Lake Michigan.  Stunning.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Whitemarsh in suburban Philadelphia has 2 clubhouses- one is modern style with dining and banquet rooms with the pro shop and women's locker room on the lower level;the other is a men's grill and locker room.

[Matt_Cohn]

Yes - Knollwood near Chicago also has two totally separate clubhouses.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Chicago,+IL,+United+States+of+America&ie=UTF8&ll=42.273292,-87.880089&spn=0.004128,0.010815&t=h&z=17

[Adam_Messix]

Rancho Sante Fe Golf Club has two clubhouses now.  One building houses the Men's and Ladies' Locker Rooms and the Golf Shop.  The other building is the original clubhouse that now has a bar, meeting rooms, and a formal dining room.

[James Bennett]

If your municipalities are really into a sense of community they'd build one. It sounds to me like those are two awfully myopic planning agencies you've got there. One clubhouse is a big enough waste. Two are just ridiculous.

Brad

perhaps they really only need one municipality.  Municipalities are generally bigger wastes than clubhouses.

James B

[C. Squier]

In an age when 2 competing clubs are contemplating joining as one to share overhead costs (by alternating days where one clubhouse is open, the other isn't), I find this odd and a huge waste.  I can't believe tax payers haven't given this one a few more rounds of contemplation. 

CPS

[David Stamm]

Rancho Sante Fe Golf Club has two clubhouses now.  One building houses the Men's and Ladies' Locker Rooms and the Golf Shop.  The other building is the original clubhouse that now has a bar, meeting rooms, and a formal dining room.

I think that may be stretching it a bit. While it's true that there 2 different buildings, the facilities are are divided. And not to nit pick, but the original clubhouse was torn down long ago.

[Philippe Binette]

Some club in Scotland and England have a men and a women clubhouse, Royal Aberdeen is among them...

Funny story that I've been told:

The ladies member at Royal Aberdeen don't have access to the men's clubhouse unless formaly invited, but members of another Royal Club in the world do.

So once the ladies of Royal Montreal went to play at Royal Aberdeen for a team match, as member of another Royal club, they were allowed in the men's clubhouse... They then had to invite the ladies of Royal Aberdeen and there it goes, the ladies of Royal Montreal were host at Royal Aberden to the ladies of... Royal Aberdeen

[Dan Boerger]

Whitemarsh has two clubhouses? All this time I thought it was just a huge back room to the pro shop.

There is simply no reason to leave the men's locker room there save for going home or heading to the first tee.

[Adam_Messix]

David--

Upon further review, you are correct as far as the original clubhouse.  Usually when two clubhouses are being discussed there is a separate golf house and a view house, like Crystal Downs or Shoreacres whose main clubhouses both have great views.  Johns Island and Orchid Island in Vero Beach have Golf clubhouses and separate beach clubhouses.  Mountaintop in Cashiers has a main clubhouse and a separate Lake House. 

[Peter Wagner]

Hi Jeremy,

My very best advice would be to avoid 2 clubhouses if at all possible.  We have 2 clubhouses at Sherwood, a 57,000 sq.ft. golf clubhouse and a 17,000 sq.ft. tennis clubhouse.  The 2 buildings are about 400 yards apart.  The problems that you run into are numerous:  1.) 2 complete staffs of waiters, cooks, managers, etc.; 2.) "us vs them" thinking in the membership; 3.) utility bills, landscape bills, etc.

I would try to get the 2 parties to agree on one clubhouse and do some sort of revenue sharing thing so that both municipalities are happy.

Remember: 2 clubhouses are twice the expense to operate.  This forces a higher number of total membership which forces a higher number of rounds played which beats up the turf.  In this case less is more.

Best,
Peter Wagner