What is the first duty of a caddie and who is your favorite?

[Sean Walsh]

I agree that double looping lessens the service.  I didn't have to do it and preferred it that way.  The economics (and availability of caddies) of double bagging does I'm sure make it necessary in some places.  I could however caddie for one player and give probably a 90% service to a playing partner and be comfortable doing it.

Jordan,
Re the Reading the greens I understand that if a player doesn't want your opinion on putts you don't give it.  I do however disagree that you don't read the putt yourself.  I don't mean lining it up from a few directions etc. I do mean having a good look on the approach to the green and knowing if asked what your answer would be.  I've been through a round where I wasn't required to read putts until he asks on the 16th green what the read is, I believe it's nice to have the answer without the "whole show" of reading it.  I would also in this situation turn it back on them and first ask what they have read before giving my confirmation or nudge towards my read. 

[Steve Kline]

Here's what I want out of caddy in order of important:

1. A guy that is fun that will boost or keep my confidence going. Someone who seems to want me to go really low. Make the day memorable.
2. A good reader of the greens. After I read the putt we confer on the putt.
3. Someone who can point where I want to miss or that this green tends to run away so let's take a club less.

I haven't had many caddies fail to do these three things. Typically, the hardest for them is reading the putts - usually because they don't consider the speed I'm going to hit it. I had a great caddie at Spyglass - don't remember his name though. He did the three things above and was awesome at point 2. I was playing the tips that day and on the third tee he told me the other caddy said he would buy me lunch if I broke 80. I liked that he told me this because it motivated me to play well. I told the other caddy that he could buy my caddy lunch if I did. The whole group heard the good natured exchange. At number 9 I had 200 yards to a back left pin. There was a tree behind the green about 5-7 yards right of the pin. I told the caddy I thought it was a 3-iron with a draw off the tree. He said he liked that. After about it being 100 yards in the air I turned to him and said "Like that?" He just smiled and nodded his head. When the ball came to rest a couple of feet away and I was going to be 1-under my caddy yelled across the fairway to the other caddy "You better get a halftime adjustment."

There are some things I don't want a caddy to do:

1. Never say "Aim here." They don't ask if I'm planning on fading or drawing the ball, which I do a lot and will make a difference. I want to know where the ball will end up.
2. Tell me that it's a 6 iron or whatever club. How do you know until you know what type of shot I've hit. Perhaps I plan hitting a 3/4 shot or carving one into the wind to try to kill the ball on the green. Even in Scotland or somewhere where the wind is blowing hard - give me the yardage. I will then feel the shot I want to hit.

Typically, what will irritate me is that the caddy is not used to working for a really good golfer so they don't consider the two points above. Typically, they get a relatively higher handicapper. That's why they give the club instead of the yardage because most people under club themselves.

[Bob_Huntley]

Typically, what will irritate me is that the caddy is not used to working for a really good golfer so they don't consider the two points above. Typically, they get a relatively higher handicapper. That's why they give the club instead of the yardage because most people under club themselves.

Ah, so that's why I get handed the three wood all the time.

Bob

[Mike Golden]

I've used caddies both at private clubs where I was a member as well as while traveling and there are several real differences in expectations:

At your own club, it's unlikely the caddy is really going to help with club selection or strategy.  No one knows your game at your home course better than you.  I would use a caddy sometimes just to give one of the regulars a loop that morning (either as a single bag or double) or in tournaments where I wanted some help reading greens or just general supportive comments.

While traveling I've experienced both the highs and lows of service and quality:  the caddy at Cypress Point who was unbelievably helpful and professional, the caddy at Pinehurst #2 who was way past his prime, Danny at TOC who, at 70, had been caddying there for over 50 years and led me around the course by my nose (to my complete delight), to the one at SFGC who I was ready to shoot after misclubbing me about 4 holes in a row.  There is nothing better, at least to me, than a good caddy for the enjoyment of a round of golf;  In hindsight, though , I would rather carry my own bag (and an extra 20 pounds of bricks) that suffer another round with a caddy who was incompetent.

[Gerry B]

duties / traits

must know the yardage
can read greens
part time psychologist
has a wicked sense of humour
quirky

have had many great caddies over the years - and is nice to get the same ones during repeat visits.

some of my favorites include:

red from myopia hunt club - probably my #1

schmitty from pine valley - not for everyone but i love when he loops for me

Sparky at the creek club - pound for pound the king of the north shore of long island - loops 2 bags that barely clear the ground - and can find any errant shot that finds the fescue very quickly

Stacy at Cypress Point - bonus points for not switching out my bag

Byron at Merion

Barry from Shoreacres - not sure if he loops there these days

Vernon from Atlantic City CC- has to be over 70 years old - he rides and we walk - old school

Foxy at Shinnecock Hills

[Dean Stokes]

Sean--
There isn't any logical reason for you needing your golf bag.  You need your golf clubs, balls and tees to play golf.  A wind shirt, wallet, cigars, water bottle and sun block will all fit into a change out bag and there isn't a caddie alive who will deny you those things.  But if your bag is deemed un-carryable by the caddie then so be it.  And if your not enough of a adult to get over it then like you said, carry it yourself. 

Joe

I don't really care if a caddie thinks I am "not enough of an adult" to have my bag dumped.  So far as I am concerned if the caddie can't handle carrying my bag which weighs all of 10-12 pounds he is not fit to do the job.  If the caddie is looking to double loop then he isn't serious about providing a good service.  In either case I am not too bothered about having him work for me.  At the rates caddies charge I don't think these requirements are unreasonable.  If you think these are unreasonable expectations - fair enough. 

Ciao

 

Sean, Am I to gather from your posts on this subject that you've never club caddied before?
I did this morning and find your remarks rather off putting.

If your bag is not designed to be carried on a single shoulder then expect it to be swapped out.
If the caddy is looking to double loop - he would be trying to make a living! It has nothing whatsoever to do with him not wanting to give good service. If you want a single caddy you may request that from the Caddy Master - you just need to pay him/her the same rate as if he was carrying double.
The caddies do not charge anything. The club sets the rate and it is fairly standard throughout the country.
It would appear you think caddies are overpaid. May I suggest you give it a go.

[Zack Kelly]

Best thing in a Caddie is a good personality I like to talk to my caddies and get to know them and enjoy the company for a few hours.  I have had so many good ones its hard to pick my favorite.

[Sean_A]

Sean--
There isn't any logical reason for you needing your golf bag.  You need your golf clubs, balls and tees to play golf.  A wind shirt, wallet, cigars, water bottle and sun block will all fit into a change out bag and there isn't a caddie alive who will deny you those things.  But if your bag is deemed un-carryable by the caddie then so be it.  And if your not enough of a adult to get over it then like you said, carry it yourself. 

Joe

I don't really care if a caddie thinks I am "not enough of an adult" to have my bag dumped.  So far as I am concerned if the caddie can't handle carrying my bag which weighs all of 10-12 pounds he is not fit to do the job.  If the caddie is looking to double loop then he isn't serious about providing a good service.  In either case I am not too bothered about having him work for me.  At the rates caddies charge I don't think these requirements are unreasonable.  If you think these are unreasonable expectations - fair enough. 

Ciao

 

Sean, Am I to gather from your posts on this subject that you've never club caddied before?
I did this morning and find your remarks rather off putting.

If your bag is not designed to be carried on a single shoulder then expect it to be swapped out.
If the caddy is looking to double loop - he would be trying to make a living! It has nothing whatsoever to do with him not wanting to give good service. If you want a single caddy you may request that from the Caddy Master - you just need to pay him/her the same rate as if he was carrying double.
The caddies do not charge anything. The club sets the rate and it is fairly standard throughout the country.
It would appear you think caddies are overpaid. May I suggest you give it a go.

So now its personal because I don't want to pay a caddie to carry someone else's bag or better yet, carry two bags that aren't mine?  This attitude is off-putting?

If I wanted to caddie for a living I would.  Caddying is not a profession that ever appealed to me.  Is there any particular reason you want me to caddie?  Am I meant to gain a better understanding of what its like to carry a bag?

Ciao

[Dean Stokes]

Nothing personal. From your posts however, you appear to be under the impression that club caddies are overpaid and really don't do much.

All I'm saying is, throw two bags on your back for four and a half hours and you may change your opinion of club caddies.

We can even make sure they are well designed carry bags

[Patrick_Mucci]

Without having read any responses, I think the FIRST duty of a caddy is to introduce himself in a pleasant manner, giving the impression that he's going to enjoy the day with you and that he's your partner in your quest to do battle on the golf course, be it against an opponent and/or the golf course.

[Mark Smolens]

3 great caddies:  Jerry Franklin at Pebble Beach.  He swapped out our bags for his two Ping single strap bags (after asking us if that was okay); he regaled us with stories and anecdotes about the courses we played on the Peninsula; he kept our clubs overnight, and showed up the next day on time for our tee times; and, he guided us around the courses as if his life depended upon it -- those greens at Pebble and Spyglass were complete mysteries to me, but after 3 holes in theopening round, I just hit them in the direction Jerry gave us. 

Rush at Pinehurst #2 (about 20 years ago).  63 years old, couldn't carry our bags so we swapped out two ultra ultra light carry bags.  2nd green Rush was standing 90 degrees and 45 feet away from me.  I've read the putt to break a cup or two from right to left.  Rush says "two balls to the right."  I apparently looked at him a little cross-eyed, as if in disbelief.  After all, he hasn't come behind and read my putt.  Rush looked at me and said, "Man, I've been readin' these greens for foty three years.  Two balls to the right."  I settled over the putt, and figured I'd hit it straight at the hole -- I couldn't play the ball outside the hole left, my brain just wouldn't let me.  Hit a perfect putt, perfect speed, and the put broke. . .  two balls to the right.  After that, I just let Rush tell me what the ball was going to do.

Billy (last name unk) at Evanston, again about 15 years ago.  After 3 swings, Billy told me yardages and picked clubs for me, perfectly, for the rest of the day. . .

[Doug Siebert]

I agree that double looping lessens the service.  I didn't have to do it and preferred it that way.  The economics (and availability of caddies) of double bagging does I'm sure make it necessary in some places.  I could however caddie for one player and give probably a 90% service to a playing partner and be comfortable doing it.

Sean,

That's honestly how I'd prefer to engage a caddy.  Have someone else in the group who wants/needs one, like my dad, get one, and I'll come to some sort of arrangement with him to supplement his tip if he gives me some limited help when I ask for it.  Primarily where I might get value is in fleshing out what I can see in the Strokesaver and what I can see in front of me, so that I can try to come up with my strategy for the hole....where I want to be, where I want to avoid, etc. off the tee as well as around the green/pin.

I don't need anyone to carry my clubs -- unless it is raining, having the caddy was a big help at Carnoustie on my last visit because it was the first time I'd play an entire round in the rain and played reasonably well because it was the first time my grips stayed dry!  I don't need help with club selection, and can figure out my own distances.  I can read greens pretty well but wouldn't mind help, but I've never had a caddy who did a better job of reading them than me.  I always give them the benefit of the doubt the first two times my read disagrees from his and go with him, but after he's wrong twice, I don't listen any longer

[James Bennett]

Who's the caddie at Pine Valley that reads the self-written poetry?  Not he best caddy I have had, but a very unique an interesting one.

James B

[JESII]

Schmitty!

Someone earlier mentioned him (I think). I say I think because when I caddied there were 3 Schmitty's...all unique.

Riverboat Schmitty had a great line that plays very well in the context of this thread.


Schmitty: I need to take this umbrelly out of the bag, OK!

Player: Why do you need to take it out?

Schmitty: Well it certainly won't help us today, no rain!

Player: That thing can't weigh even a pound...

Schmnitty: How about if you have $100 riding on a 1,500 lb thoroughbred and I put a 1lb weight under the saddle...how'd you feel about that?


At the time is was perfect!

[Tom Birkert]

The broadest description I could give of what I look for in a caddie is someone to make the day more enjoyable. Now that is a very simple, sweeping statement and involves all kinds of minor things in my individual case.

I like someone friendly and talkative who can offer insights and tell stories about the course and club.

I like confirmation on lines on the greens.

I like someone who gives me yardages to the front and pin and supplements that with local knowledge (plays one club more / less, where is the correct side to miss etc)

A good caddie will help me cut a couple of shots off my round and make the experience better than it would have been. On our trip to CA last year we were fortunate enough to have great caddies at CPC and PB, unfortunately I can’t recall their names no matter how hard I try, which is most annoying. I can picture them (and indeed have pictures of them!) and they really did make a special trip even better.

[James Bennett]

Schmitty!

Someone earlier mentioned him (I think). I say I think because when I caddied there were 3 Schmitty's...all unique.

Sulli

Gerry B mentioned it above - I wondered if it was Schmitty. 

I had the feeling that you could talk to Scmitty, but that it would be very difficult to tell him too much or to win an argument with him.  You can also tell when Schmitty is listening really hard - his mouth is normally open (LOL),

He is a unique character, and he helped to make a very wet day memorable. 

James B

[Wade Whitehead]

What do I want from my caddie?

When I ask "Do you think I can get there with a six iron?," I don't want to hear "Eventually."

WW

[Jed Peters]

First duty?

Synergy with the player--no matter what their style or needs/wants.

Best caddie I've had? He's actually a buddy of mine, and he doesn't loop for me, but I get to share a cart/play fourball matches with him all the time. Erick Justesen, works for CSI and loops at Cordevalle and the pebble courses.

Things I like most about playing with him--he always will say something like "its the number plus 10" or something like that...and doesn't doubt it at all.

His tips are something like "finish high" or the like, not over analyzing anything.

Great guy, great to have "on" the bag.

For what it's worth, Joe and his brother James are very good with different levels of players. I believe on our trip they caddied for guys that ranged from a plus handicap to a high-teens handicap player. And they both did a great job.

Joe, I do think Chanon was mad he couldn't take it low that day you looped for him though. he wasn't happy about the 73 (or was it 71?), couldn't shut up about the fact that the ball didn't release when he hit that 3rd shot on 18.....

Oh, and I think Sasha was a good caddie for the player she got. She did a nice job with her player over the 5 rounds, from what I saw. But I don't think she was much of a "player's" caddie.

Joe, here's a question for you: is it easier to caddie for a guy like chanon who can hit it how you want it to the number (putt or long shot) or someone who doesn't hit it long or straight?  I mean, there has to be a certain pressure looping for the good player, whereas it's more enjoyable (more often than not) for the person who's not out to shoot a number?

[Jason Topp]

The only reason to have a caddie is to help expose a kid to a game and people he or she might not otherwise see.  A secondary benefit is some interesting companionship.

Unless a course truly cannot be deciphered or you are walking 36 a day or it is raining I do not get alot of benefit from a caddie.

[Jay Flemma]

3 great caddies:  Jerry Franklin at Pebble Beach.  He swapped out our bags for his two Ping single strap bags (after asking us if that was okay); he regaled us with stories and anecdotes about the courses we played on the Peninsula; he kept our clubs overnight, and showed up the next day on time for our tee times; and, he guided us around the courses as if his life depended upon it -- those greens at Pebble and Spyglass were complete mysteries to me, but after 3 holes in theopening round, I just hit them in the direction Jerry gave us. 

Rush at Pinehurst #2 (about 20 years ago).  63 years old, couldn't carry our bags so we swapped out two ultra ultra light carry bags.  2nd green Rush was standing 90 degrees and 45 feet away from me.  I've read the putt to break a cup or two from right to left.  Rush says "two balls to the right."  I apparently looked at him a little cross-eyed, as if in disbelief.  After all, he hasn't come behind and read my putt.  Rush looked at me and said, "Man, I've been readin' these greens for foty three years.  Two balls to the right."  I settled over the putt, and figured I'd hit it straight at the hole -- I couldn't play the ball outside the hole left, my brain just wouldn't let me.  Hit a perfect putt, perfect speed, and the put broke. . .  two balls to the right.  After that, I just let Rush tell me what the ball was going to do.

Billy (last name unk) at Evanston, again about 15 years ago.  After 3 swings, Billy told me yardages and picked clubs for me, perfectly, for the rest of the day. . .

1.  Mike and JES...honestly guys, my bag is light and easy to carry.  I'm 5'7" and 134 lbs...and if I can carry it 18 holes - and at last year's Dixie Cup carry it with my shin splints barking the whole day at me - a caddie should have no problem.

I guess the thread shows exactly how hard a caddie's job is because the individual needs of the player differ so vastly form player to player.  I don;t agree that a caddy isn't supposed to be there to work closely with me, because that's the traditional duty of as caddy and that's why I'm payting him.  I'm not paying him soelky to subsidize a caddie program, I want value for my money.

Mark, thanks for the rex, I'll try those guys too...excepty at Pinehurst, I love Bobby hill and I'm loyal.  Who wouldn't be to a guy that I work so well with.  Isn't that what having a caddie is all about...building a working (and more) relationship based on mutual respect and friendship that pays its dividends in great golf?

Jordan, great post.  I'll keep those thoughts in mind.  By the way...if you;re interested, next time we meet, you're hired if you want my bag.  I'll even bring my iPod full of Phish concerts from the early to mid-90s for you to check out...the "Loving Cup" from Albany '99 is life-changing.

[Joe Bentham]

Jed--
My only requirement is that you have fun.  If your a good player, then fun for you is trying to take it low, and I'm going to work my A$$ to give you the help you need to do so.  If your more like the rest of us (especially at Bandon) then I try to adjust expectation levels not only of myself but of the player in question.  If you can't break 90 at home you won't break 100 here no matter where I tell you to hit it or how well we read the putts.  So the goal is to enjoy the scenery, the course and your friends more then it is to score.  Or at least it should be.
As for Mr. Channon Brown it was 73, and it was a good round. 

[JESII]

Your issues run deeper than I ever imagined...

[Sean_A]

Your issues run deeper than I ever imagined...

You see Sully, I'm not so bad.  All I asked was for the guy I pay to carry my bag to actually carry my bag.  The rest is fluff.

Ciao

[JESII]

I'll carry your bag anytime...if the other two options are:

1) Read what Shivas actually expects from a caddy...
2) Debate Pat Mucci in full color within one quote box...

[Sean_A]

I'll carry your bag anytime...if the other two options are:

1) Read what Shivas actually expects from a caddy...
2) Debate Pat Mucci in full color within one quote box...

Sully

Hmmm, when you put it like that, I spose I can let you dump my bag for one of those new age wonder kits with one strap.  I wouldn't want anybody to be traumatized by the alternatives. 

Ciao