What is the first duty of a caddie and who is your favorite?

[John Kavanaugh]

How about not smoking a dime bag on the way to work.

Golfers don't smoke weed?  At least as much as caddies anyway.   

That is interesting.  At Bandon, what is your estimation of the percentage of golfers and caddies that smoke weed?

[Lloyd_Cole]

There is just so much that one has to remember when taking a caddy, it's almost not worth it - I always forget to mention something or other. However, having caddied much of my youth, I have no qualms in calling a bag carrier a bag carrier. Unfortunately, I'm not so good at asking them to pipe down.

At Hoylake in '06 when I couldn't do 36 a day without one I got stuck with an absolute fool,  full to the brim  with unwanted cab driver wisdom and frankly just not a good caddy. After two rounds of taking his reads and missing many putts low, I had a hunch what was up - I asked him - Are you giving me the read for the dead weight to die the ball in the hole? 'Yes, of course.' he replied. So I asked 'Did you ever wonder about my putts finishing 18' to 2 feet past the hole and think 'Maybe this guy isn't trying to die his putts in the hole'?' He shrugged...

I'm sure I've posted this rant before so I'll keep it short: Dornoch 1997, my only visit. I tell the caddy on the first tee that, as he doesn't know my game, I'd like just yardages until we get to know each other. No need until the 3rd - 'How far to the hole?' I ask. 'About a 7 iron' was the reply. I felt like crying.

On the same trip at Cruden Bay in weather only English inbred for several generations would venture into I met the most charming middle aged chap who had taken an early retirement to become a caddy, and a fantastic one he was too. Several drivers were pulled inside of 200 yards...

Pebble Beach,1991, I had a retired military guy who was brilliant - no pacing up and down for yardages - he seemed to know every inch of the place. And he somehow made me believe that my 95 from the tips was about the norm for 3 and 4 handicappers...(I was about an 8, then) and he swore the pros never play from all the way back except when the Open is there.

Best ever caddy? Definitely Royal Melbourne 2000 - a young 'assistant pro' (I think one of the better junior players, really) who did a fine job on a beautiful day when I actually played pretty well. His award comes from telling me on the 16th or so that I was the best visiting player he had ever caddied for!! Very smart young man. I'm sure I tipped him very well...

[Jay Flemma]

Joe, honestly, I think randomly selected at this course meant randomly selected.  A 5'7" guy that weighs 135 lbs carries that bag all over creation, so it is not too heavy and its a small stand/carry bag.  When we meet someday, pick it up.  I never have a problem carrying it, so a caddy shouldn't.  I think the caddiemaster might have done it because of the strap thing.  When I went back and had the same issue, that's what they cited.

I'll tell you the worst caddie I ever had was the same day as the bag incident.  We were there for a Met Golf Writers media day in the afternoon and the guy who was supposed to carry my bag was at the course in the a.m., but for whatever reason didn't get called to carry any bags.  Apparently he had words with the caddiemaster about that.  So they decided to try to make things easy for him and picked me, thinking Jay gets along with everyone on the golf course, no problem, low maintenance round.

Trouble was he only got my bag...not two.  We were a threesome and he drew the single bag.  So instead of making four fees for the day like the other caddies, he was making one.  It put him in a foul, foul mood.

We had a long ride to the first tee, so I tried to be friendly and ask him where he had caddied before...not to grill him, but to just make conversation and let him talk about himself...break the ice.

He snaps back at me about how he caddied on tour for [name deleted].  I asked him another innocuous question and he snapped at me again about why I ask so many questions, so I clammed up.

It was a shotgun start and we started on 14.  Well for four holes, he's ridiculing me!  Eddie Peck and our third might be able to quote chapter and verse, but he was not walking with me, not helping, being curt.  Eddie noticed it and I just said its nothing, I'll try to work it out.

Well on 16 - the third hole of the day, he told me left-to-right on a putt and I did that and missed the wrong way, so he says, "no I meant left to right this way" indicating the wrong way.  So on the next green, he takes out the flag and - in front of everyone - says, "now pay attention...this is your left and this is your right."

I never experienced anything like this.  Here it is media day with my peers and this guy is instigating a dispute.  I told Eddie that I didn't feel comfortable and he said that he absolutely would have fired the guy on the spot.  I told the guy on the tee that when we got back to the clubhouse to go in and send out another caddie.

Now to the course's credit and unbeknownst to me, they were watching the guy because he had been acting up earlier.  They saw he and I were not interacting well and came up and asked what happened.  I told them.  I had a new guy the next hole who was fine.

Adam, swapping the bag was not the caddy's decision, but the club's and they didn't ask me, they just did it while I was inside.

And Ads, I must disagree with you.  To me, my golf bag is an extension of me as much as my wallet or keys.  It's personal.  Maybe I'm silly here, but again, what if I didn't see it and we went out and I got stung by a bee and died because my medicine was back at the clubhouse?  Or was gravely hurt?  Or what if he forgot to put in my wallet?  Or something else I needed?  Or something personal?  I know a golf buddy from Deerfield that kept a pair of his girlfriend's panties in his bag for luck.  What if they pulled THAT out of his bag on the range in front of people?

I agree with Ian Fleming, the author, "never look in another man's wallet" and, by extension, I include my golf bag.  I don't mean to see what clubs are in there, but to take stuff out, move things, examine the contents, and select items to be transferred.  It's bad form not to ask first.

[PThomas]

I'm not too particular about a caddie so long as he/she has a pretty good attitude, can give me decent readings and tell me not to hit it over that dune because there is a mean family of gypsies living on the other side, then I'm pretty content.

My favorite, though not necessarily the best, caddie was Billy at Ballybunion. Billy had a Hall of Fame beer belly, was (and I'm ballparking it here) in his mid 50's and had the windblown look of a guy who had been looping for the last 2-3 decades. Anyway, we were playing 36 that day and Billy was walking a little slow down the 2nd hole of the 2nd round. I went over to him and asked him if he was ok and if not, to feel free to go on to the clubhouse and I'll take the clubs from there. He said, "Tis alright... I'll be gettin' a second wind in a bit." "You sure Billy? Ok."

So Billy was still lagging behind a couple holes later and I asked the other caddie if Billy was going to be ok. I was thinking heart attack. He said, "Eh, he's feeling a bit under the weather today. We buried his best friend last night."

"Jesus! I'm sorry. He shouldn't be out here today. He's obviously still grieving!"

"Eh, that's not the problem.... Billy had about 18 pints of Guinness last night."

Mouth open in amazement, I turned back around to get a look at Billy, who was lumbering about 100 yards behind, and could only think of a one thing.

"How in God's name?"

David, your story brought back memories of one of my games at Mid-Ocean...was  a hot humid day and our guy, who pretty heavy, carried double, my wifes bag and mine, up and down those hills on that hot day!

i was worried for his health...at the turn i told him "Please , i'm buying however many beverages you want!

[Joe Bentham]

Jay--
Your a grown man.  If you need bee medication while your on the golf course, put it the change out bag, same goes for your wallet.

[Sean Walsh]

When I was doing it last year I felt my first duty was to size up what the golfer wanted from me.

My second duty was to try and give them what they wanted.  Which I feel I generally did.  I enjoyed plenty of great rounds and very few poor ones.  I would have had less than 5% that I would have passed up another round with.  I was more likely to pass up a round with an arse who paid, than a good guy/gal who didn't.  I felt I was trudging around with this person for 4+ hours I didn't want to be tempted to use the driver on the back of his skull. 

I rarely if ever suggested a club unless they had used it earlier in the round from the same yardage (taking wind and other factors into account) and hit it well.  I also kept notes of each shot on the pin sheet to help me with this later in the round.  Later in the round if I disagreed with the club he selected I'd take out my notes tell him the hole he'd used the club I was leaning towards and show him the evidence.  This left me in a win-win. Generally gave him the confidence to hit the club I was keen on and 9 times out of 10 get the result we wanted.  If he went against my advice and stuffed it I was absolved from much guilt. If he went against my advice it was then my role to make him feel comfortable with whichever club he had chosen (and then hide my smile if he got it wrong  )

Reading putts is important but  can often be whether the caddie is able to get in sync with the player's putting.  It's all about trust and if I misread one or even agreed with the player's misread I would take the fall and the player's confidence was usually less affected.  I only had a few days were I was badly out of sync with my golfer and got 2 or more reads significantly wrong. There is no substitute for experience on the greens.  Also to ensure I gave the golfer what they wanted I'd ask what he wanted from me on the greens the first time I handed him a putter.   

The swing tip I confined myself to was SLOW DOWWWN.  Just about everyone playing poorly benefited from slowing down.  I'm not a golf coach and not a good enough golfer to analyse my own game let alone someone else's.

[Joe Bentham]

How about not smoking a dime bag on the way to work.

Golfers don't smoke weed?  At least as much as caddies anyway.   

That is interesting.  At Bandon, what is your estimation of the percentage of golfers and caddies that smoke weed?

I took exception with the idea that caddies are into drugs more then the general population, or golfers for that matter.  The numbers @ Bandon aren't any different then they are in soceity as a whole I don't think.  I'm really sorry I opened this can of worms with you.  go away.... 

[Wayne_Freedman]

Bob,

It is different when you caddie for a friend, or when one returns the favor.

A good caddy is like a gentleman's  "second" in the old days of dueling.

He knows, innately, what to say, and when. He allows you to focus your game.

He adds confidence. He take the guilt away on difficult putts.

And, he is an optimist. Always an optimist.

Wayne,

When duelling, the last person you would want on the job is a mercenary that you had just met for the first time.  That's generally what happens when you get a caddie today.

Bob

[Joe Hancock]

How about not smoking a dime bag on the way to work.

Golfers don't smoke weed?  At least as much as caddies anyway.   

That is interesting.  At Bandon, what is your estimation of the percentage of golfers and caddies that smoke weed?

I took exception with the idea that caddies are into drugs more then the general population, or golfers for that matter.  The numbers @ Bandon aren't any different then they are in soceity as a whole I don't think.  I'm really sorry I opened this can of worms with you.  go away.... 

Go away...almost made me snort coffee out my nose!....good one....

I wonder if Mary Ann from "Gilligan's Island" has ever been a caddy.....or a golfer....

Go away.....

Joe

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Caddy. 

The guy who carried your clubs with heads forward, shafts protruding behind and with no golf bag.

Then came the caddy who again carried your clubs (in the same manner as above) but was there to provide local information (if requires) on the course -perhaps we should call this the Golfers first outside aid, even high tech aid (the early GPS, Range Finder and source of course information).

Then came the bag, plus the need for more course details, on layout of fairways and greens, the best routes, club selection etc, etc. In other words the modern professional Caddy.

The modern Caddy will, I expect be all that you require of him or her on a golf course, but his first duty has never changed – it is to carry your clubs.     

[Chip Gaskins]

Mitch at Bandon is the best I have had (+4 hcp, played at UofIl, awesome young guy, strong as an ox)

Believe it or not, worst caddie was at PV (I realize as the non member I got the lowest guy on the rung, but with all the fore-caddieing they do there my bag wasn't with me about 60% of time)

[Adam Russell]

Melvyn, you said it perfectly. Caddies are only there to carry clubs. Which is why it frustrates me so much when these OCD golfers come to the course and expect you to understand the nuances of their game and how they play. I see so many caddies who are afraid to ask their player questions because they feel the tip will go down if they don't know the minute details before they step on the first tee. There is also a different method for private vs. public vs. resort. I caddie completely opposite on a private course than I do on a resort (Piedmont Driving Club and Reynolds Plantation) because the expectations differ.

A few posts back someone was talking about double bags and switching bags, and the idea seemed to state that good caddies get double bags, which for a CSI caddie is completely wrong. The person and the bags are random draw. As far as switching bags, the only time its done at either of the clubs I caddie for is weight, such as a heavy leather bag switched for a Sun Mountain ultralight. Never heard of anything like Jay Flemma was talking about.

Sean Walsh- what's the course name? I

[JESII]

Jay sounds like he is describing a bag with the forced double strap that are a nightmare to carry on one shoulder because the balance is thrown...I agree with switching out that bag and would suggest that if you are so attached to your own bag you ought to make it more manageable to anyone that is going to manage it.

[Kalen Braley]

I can really only think of two things I would really want from my Caddy.

1)  Keep up even if it means showing a little hustle

2)  Answer questions when asked and please don't provide too much unsolicited information.

[Brian Phillips]

I caddied with Rocky at Pine Valley probably 50 times and never saw a single player have anything other than a great time with him. And I am sure many on here have been with him.

My first caddie ever was Rocky at Pine Valley.  I thought all of them would be like him....how wrong I was.  I have had him twice and had a blast both times!

I just want yardages and stories from my caddies.  No reads on the greens unless I am really unsure. If can't read greens then I should not be designing golf courses.

[JESII]

Brian,

Rocky sets pretty lofty expectations...he's one of a kind.

Re: reading greens...if I can't see it myself, I am not going to be able to trust another read, so I virtually never ask.


Do you have a line from Rocky that has stuck with you?

[jeffwarne]

There is just so much that one has to remember when taking a caddy, it's almost not worth it - I always forget to mention something or other. However, having caddied much of my youth, I have no qualms in calling a bag carrier a bag carrier. Unfortunately, I'm not so good at asking them to pipe down.

At Hoylake in '06 when I couldn't do 36 a day without one I got stuck with an absolute fool,  full to the brim  with unwanted cab driver wisdom and frankly just not a good caddy. After two rounds of taking his reads and missing many putts low, I had a hunch what was up - I asked him - Are you giving me the read for the dead weight to die the ball in the hole? 'Yes, of course.' he replied. So I asked 'Did you ever wonder about my putts finishing 18' to 2 feet past the hole and think 'Maybe this guy isn't trying to die his putts in the hole'?' He shrugged...

Lloyd,
If the caddie was reading your putts to die in the hole (which would mean he was reading MORE break), and you were playing them to go 18-24 inches past the hole, why on earth were you missing putts LOW

The problem may not have been with your caddie

[Craig Sweet]

I have only had one caddy...a buddy of mine carried my bag for me in some college matches...his name is Tex....a big man...6' 5" and a solid 280 pounds....always wore cowboy boots, a gray jump suit (like the caddies at Augusta) and a huge cowboy hat...always....everyday always.

He always carried by bag by the handle...like a suitcase...One time on a course in the Berkshire, he leaned against a split rail fence next to a tee box and the fence collapsed sending him, and by bag, tumbling down a hill.....I remember playing a par 3....I hit into a bunker, two guys hit into a pond next to the green, and the fourth guy knocked it about 30 yards over the green...as we walked down the fairway Tex said in a loud voice..."for a non contact sport, this game sure can bruise your ego"

Finally, at match in Williamstown, he munched on a PB&J sandwich as we walked up the fairway...after we putted out one of my opponents ask what we all had on the hole...Tex waited until we were finished and then he spoke up "And I sir, had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich"....you had to be there to fully enjoy the humor...Tex knew nothing about golf, he couldn't read greens, but he had an IQ above 180...and a wicked funny sense of humor...with his IQ and instant recall of most anything, he was very entertaining...

[Sean_A]

Jay sounds like he is describing a bag with the forced double strap that are a nightmare to carry on one shoulder because the balance is thrown...I agree with switching out that bag and would suggest that if you are so attached to your own bag you ought to make it more manageable to anyone that is going to manage it.

Sully

I am not sure this is a reasonable expectation considering the golfer is hiring and paying a fair chunk of change for someone to carry clubs.  At the very least, if a caddie has hangups about a bag, why doesn't he own different straps he can switch to make life easier for himself?  It seems to me its a much more reasonable expectation for the caddie to conform to his employers rather than all the employers conforming to a caddie's hangup.

Ciao

[Adam Clayman]

Sean, That's absurd. Sully nailed the justification, even if one is not needed. Have you looked at the new bags?
 Those straps do not detach.
 
Jay, You are correct that if you were not informed it was bad form. You should've been given the chance to swap out your own personal affects, sans dive weights.

[JESII]

Sean,

Forget the money. If a caddy doesn't help you enjoy your day any amount of money feel like too much, and if they do help you enjoy your day the top side pay is barely an afterthought.

If Jay owns a bag with the clumsy double strap that doesn't carry well on one shoulder he should expect it to be changed out every time he is taking a caddy. Caddies are in it to make a living, so expect them to carry two bags. Do the math, these guys are working hard, but they are not getting rich so carrying one bag so they can pay full attention to you is the most laughable thing I hear...who in the world needs a caddy to be able to focus their full attention on them? Get over it! Play golf.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

When I was doing it last year I felt my first duty was to size up what the golfer wanted from me.

My second duty was to try and give them what they wanted.  Which I feel I generally did.  I enjoyed plenty of great rounds and very few poor ones.  I would have had less than 5% that I would have passed up another round with.  I was more likely to pass up a round with an arse who paid, than a good guy/gal who didn't.  I felt I was trudging around with this person for 4+ hours I didn't want to be tempted to use the driver on the back of his skull. 

I rarely if ever suggested a club unless they had used it earlier in the round from the same yardage (taking wind and other factors into account) and hit it well.  I also kept notes of each shot on the pin sheet to help me with this later in the round.  Later in the round if I disagreed with the club he selected I'd take out my notes tell him the hole he'd used the club I was leaning towards and show him the evidence.  This left me in a win-win. Generally gave him the confidence to hit the club I was keen on and 9 times out of 10 get the result we wanted.  If he went against my advice and stuffed it I was absolved from much guilt. If he went against my advice it was then my role to make him feel comfortable with whichever club he had chosen (and then hide my smile if he got it wrong  )

Reading putts is important but  can often be whether the caddie is able to get in sync with the player's putting.  It's all about trust and if I misread one or even agreed with the player's misread I would take the fall and the player's confidence was usually less affected.  I only had a few days were I was badly out of sync with my golfer and got 2 or more reads significantly wrong. There is no substitute for experience on the greens.  Also to ensure I gave the golfer what they wanted I'd ask what he wanted from me on the greens the first time I handed him a putter.   

The swing tip I confined myself to was SLOW DOWWWN.  Just about everyone playing poorly benefited from slowing down.  I'm not a golf coach and not a good enough golfer to analyse my own game let alone someone else's.

I was going to give a nice little breakdown of caddying but Sean already took most the words out of my mouth. Pretty good breakdown and I agree with pretty much all of it. I would caddy for 95% of the guys I caddy for again. Most of the time unfortunately it's the grumpy guys that are cheap. However just the other day I caddy for a guy who is generally pretty gruff when you first meet him but now having caddied for him 5-6 times he trusts me and we can have a good time. Getting to know someone quickly and read them is the #1 job of a caddy imho. As is so wonderfully represented here in this DG topic you never know who you are going to meet/caddy for. All the other things we do, carry the bag, get yardage, read putts etc. can only be done well if you can figure a guy out quickly. Luckily at Calusa Pines we get to take our players to the range which allows us to get a feel for the player. You may not know it but which clubs you hit and the method of how you warm-up says a lot not to mention how you hit it. What game you guys decide to play, how you negotiate handicaps, partners etc. all helps me get a feel for your personality. Trust me guys we've caddy for you before.

Jay- Do you have a Burton "double" strap back-pack bag? The one I am referring to is actually just one strap in the shape of a U. It is perfectly fine when you are singling or carrying your own but absolutely one of the worst if you have to double it. Having caddied for 10 years now I often joke that I have a "degree in bag-strap engineering." Almost every single bag on the market I have found a way to manipulate the straps to make it comfortable for a double caddy. This bag  (and those made like it with a single U back-pack strap) are the only ones that are nearly impossible to get anywhere near comfortable. Most of you may get mad that anyone would change around the straps on your bag but I am pretty sure most of you would prefer us to worry more about your score than your bag for 4 hours.

That being said we have a strict rule to not go in someone's bag when "changing it out" from a cart to carry bag. We switch only the clubs over and then let the player know that a) we are changing their bag out, b) we've only switched the clubs, and c) please go ahead and put whatever, including your bee sting medicine into the change-out bag.

Joe and JK -
Weed is fairly prevalent in both society and in caddy yards. No need to argue back and forth about it.

[Matt_Ward]

Agree with a number of people on the primary aspects of what a caddie should do ...

make the day fun for the player

speak only when spoken to

keep up with the pace of play -- normally should always be ahead of the players to add as a forecaddie if possible

know the yardages when asked

The last aspect is a simple one -- for the cheapskates in the world. I always find it amusing that people will tip the waiter at a restaurant a big time amount ($25+) for having minimum involvement with your pleasure but then you have certain people who have been helped by a caddie and then think they are doing a "huge" favor by giving the caddie something along the lines of $5-$10. Hey guys -- break the freakin down !

Quality service for four+ hours is worth a good bit more.

No doubt a bad caddie should not be paid a penny more than the base rate. But it pays to look in the mirror and really understand the dynamics before engaging a caddie.

P.S. It helps before the day gets started if you spell out your needs with the caddie master beforehand. This way you can get what you want. If you simply want a bag toter just tell the caddie master that and be prepared for what you get.

P.S. One other thing -- agree with those who have opined on having a quality golf bag -- not some suitcase for the guy to carry. Having a decent strap is the least someone should have. Ditto removing all the balls and sweatsuits in the bag prior to playing.

One final thing -- in most cases your day is determined by your attitude -- that works both ways.

[Mike Benham]

I doubt Jay's bag was randomly selected.  On the contray it was selected for a reason.  And I'm guessing its because his bag is too big or too heavy.

I'll agree with Joe with an additional requirement for caddies that I have had, the straps ... sometimes the dual straps on modern bags won't work well when the caddie wants to put it on a single shoulder, no matter how small or light the bag is.

[Richard Boult]

I can really only think of two things I would really want from my Caddy.
1)  Keep up even if it means showing a little hustle
2)  Answer questions when asked and please don't provide too much unsolicited information.

I've only used a caddy once - last year in my first of four rounds at Bandon. Having now experienced a caddy, I'd agree with Kalen... just carry my bag and answer my questions.  My caddy at Bandon Trails was a great guy, a fellow snowboarder and a +2 golfer. However, he offered too much advice. On one hole he assured me I couldn't reach that fairway bunker with a driver. I did. On another hole, he assured me I needed more club from the fairway to reach a green. I took his advice and landed the bunker past the green.  I hit one more bunker on another hole due to taking his advice over trusting my own instincts. As a relative beginner, my bunker play sucks and my game revolves around avoiding them. As a result of trusting my caddy more than myself, I got plenty of practice from them that day.  Then, when my caddy witnessed that it took me 2 shots to get out of just about each of the bunkers, he proceeded to give me a lesson on sand shots.  It was good advise, but not the place for it. Even after loosing several shots to these bunkers on the front nine, I came in just 1-over thanks to 3 birdies.  My caddie was visibly enjoying my round and impressed with my ball striking. However, on the back nine, my bogie golf began, and my caddie was visibly frustrated with me for letting a good round get away. When I return to Bandon later this year, I'd consider taking the same caddy, but I'd make sure to trust my own game more and take less advice from him. He'd be impressed with the improvement I've made in my sand game since then