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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2008, 09:00:41 PM »
i have never had a cheesesteak sandwich in Philly >:( :( :o ??? :-[ :'(
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2008, 09:07:16 PM »
I wonder how much affect GCA has on the ranking of Philly cheese steaks?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2008, 11:37:40 PM »
We have influence.  We have pretty good taste too.

Not a Philadelphian, not even an honorary Philadelphian yet.

Not a rater.

I'd say Engineers CC is a course which benefited from exposure here.

Andy Troeger

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2008, 09:02:44 AM »
I would tend to say that networking as a whole probably has a lot to do with rankings, whether its networking through GCA or any other medium.

The one course I played because of GCA is the Kingsley Club and I ended up loving it. I would have still enjoyed the course if I knew nothing about GCA, I just don't know whether I would have actually made it there to see it.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2008, 09:36:21 PM »


To be fair, reports say that 50% of the GW Raters never heard of GCA.com last night.
[/quote]

And its probably higher with Golf Digest.  Golf Digest panelists have their own web site with a blog section and it hasn't gotten much use except for a few of the same people. 

Like everyone on this site, discussions lead to a flow of ideas and thoughts and I am one that has benefited.  There are ideas and thoughts from the architects, general discussions about new and classic courses and some positive and negative ideas and thoughts about architecture that have been the most benefit.

Has it effected the rankings?  From GD stand point, probably not.   

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2008, 09:22:30 PM »
2630   GolfClubAtlas.com / Golf Course Architecture / creating a GCA ratings panel.........  on: June 08, 2003, 03:15:03 am
 
....given the relatively intelligent level of critique and discourse shown by most on this site [although that statement could start an interesting thread], maybe the time has come to consider creating a GCA ratings panel....one cannot deny the passion for the design aspect of the game found here.......

 maybe this has been discussed before.
 maybe the time commitment would be too much.
 maybe it would provide a new venue for interesting dialogue.
 maybe the thought would explode into a thousand pieces all over the
   street and people would pick them up and smile and say
   kind things.
 maybe it could be fun....

in any event, I would suggest;

  creating a nomination list comprised of all GCA members.
  let all interested members submit a list of, say 80, nominees.
  persons with the most votes would comprise the panel.
  voting would occur annually.
  persons in the design field would be limited to, say 20%,of
    raters. 
  rate only new or recent courses [from 2000 forward].
  develop a rating scale of all the usual areas but include a
    category for 'playability by all skill levels'.
  course ratings would be posted on an ongoing basis, with an
    annual compilation for rankings.
  give raters hats [or beanies] and identity cards to help
    facilitate access to courses.


you know, on second thought, this might be one of those ideas
 that sound good but are hard to realize [suck].

.....anyway, just a thought...............


-3/17/08...wow, talk about naivety ::) ::) ::)-
   
 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 03:59:25 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike_Cirba

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 12:28:42 AM »
I've never had a better cheesesteak than sold from Gus's Lunch Truck outside Albert Einstein hospital in north Philly, a block from Broad Street.

Of course, I haven't been there in ten years, but I have no doubt that 1) the truck is still there, and 2) it's better than ever.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2008, 01:03:19 AM »
I think this website impacts the ratings by all the magazines by providing additional imfomation to people. People being raters and people who talk to raters. lol It is a good thing to me. I think information and knowledge is power. I find John K and the others on here who make fun of those who put themselves out to give opinions about the work of architects embarassing to me. I respect every architect I have had the priviledge of knowing. It is not fun to make comments that are not 100 percent flattering about a hard working professional when you will see him or her over the next few months. However the integrety of this site is geared to the free flow of honest information. Ran by the by gave a talk that had nothing to do with ratings or our evaluation of courses.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2008, 03:20:25 AM »
Ran's impromptu talk was basically about the spirit of golf and what traditional elements of the game are being overlooked these days. It was also about the international nature of the discourse on architecture.  I don't think ratings were ever even mentioned. It was not formally a talk -- more of a Q&A session.

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2008, 08:34:37 AM »

 I find John K and the others on here who make fun of those who put themselves out to give opinions about the work of architects embarassing to me.


John, any raterphile or fellow raterphobe...

Please explain how you put yourself out?  Please explain to me why people, like Tommy Williamsen at Musgrove, host raters who speak out of one side of their mouths and rate with the other?  What burdens have you incurred in the last few years during your rating travels?  Do you believe a single rater in the world does it out of a sense of service and not because they enjoy the privilage?  Why not step up like I do and put yourself out under your full real name? 

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2008, 10:25:45 AM »
John I do not know what others do. I often make comments about courses when I know and will see one of the key people in the project. Obviously many of my comments or observations which are critical. Jim Lipe, Baxter, Mike  Young, Mike Nuzzo, Art Hills, Jones Jr firm and T Doak to name a few fall in this column. Each of these men are well thought of men within their profession. I have tremendous respect for them but for this site to work open discussion of their work needs to occur.

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2008, 10:33:14 AM »
John I do not know what others do. I often make comments about courses when I know and will see one of the key people in the project. Obviously many of my comments or observations which are critical. Jim Lipe, Baxter, Mike  Young, Mike Nuzzo, Art Hills, Jones Jr firm and T Doak to name a few fall in this column. Each of these men are well thought of men within their profession. I have tremendous respect for them but for this site to work open discussion of their work needs to occur.

John,

I'm sorry if I don't see being honest as putting yourself out.  I would say you are fortunate to have the architects ear.  For guys like you who can play anywere you choose and afford the tarif, rater or no, isn't the true joy in raterhood the power of influence given to you?  Wasn't "putting yourself out" a poor choice of words?

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2008, 12:48:43 PM »
No problem John be cool and spring will be here before you know it.

Brian Cenci

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2008, 12:56:16 PM »

 I find John K and the others on here who make fun of those who put themselves out to give opinions about the work of architects embarassing to me.


John, any raterphile or fellow raterphobe...

Please explain how you put yourself out?  Please explain to me why people, like Tommy Williamsen at Musgrove, host raters who speak out of one side of their mouths and rate with the other?  What burdens have you incurred in the last few years during your rating travels?  Do you believe a single rater in the world does it out of a sense of service and not because they enjoy the privilage?  Why not step up like I do and put yourself out under your full real name? 


I bet more than a few people on this site would love to see your top 50 so we can see your rankings and opinions on paper.  It's much easier to critisize someone else than supply ones own opinions or ideas.  Step up and post your top 50.

-Brian

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2008, 02:28:28 PM »

I bet more than a few people on this site would love to see your top 50 so we can see your rankings and opinions on paper.  It's much easier to critisize someone else than supply ones own opinions or ideas.  Step up and post your top 50.

-Brian

What criteria would you like me to use?  Augusta National is my number one and all I have ever done is walk the course and watched it on TV for 40 years. 

Brian Cenci

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2008, 02:33:38 PM »
You have to have played the course.  I'm not a subscriber to, "well I walked it and got a good feel."  In the end you're there to play golf, not take a walk.  Give me your top 50 (or 25 I don't care) best courses you've played.

-Brian

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2008, 02:35:17 PM »
drum roll please, as we all wait.....

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2008, 02:46:09 PM »
Here is my top ten while I try to remember every where I have played.  This is a burden.  I'm starting to get concerned about my job and marriage, I need a rest.  Oops, it would by hypocritical to rate a course where I am a member or where my brother worked.

Riviera
Ballyneal
Pinehurst #2
Kiawah Island
Olympic Lake
Olympia Fields
Butler National
Bandon Dunes
Lake Side
Torrey Pines South
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 02:51:09 PM by John Kavanaugh »

tlavin

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2008, 03:10:43 PM »
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I used this post as an exercise to come up with my Top 30that I've played.  I've listed them from West to East, but otherwise in no particular order:

Pacific Dunes
Bandon Dunes
Pumpkin Ridge (Witch's Hollow)
Cypress Point
Pebble Beach
Spyglass
Olympic Club, Lake
Los Angeles, North
Bel-Air Country Club
Riviera
Shadow Creek
Cherry Hills
Sand Hills
Chicago Golf Club
Olympia Fields
Beverly
Skokie Golf Club
Shoreacres Golf Club
Butler National
Medinah CC #3
Whistling Straits
Dunes Club
Lost Dunes
Pinehurst #2
Harbour Town
Long Cove Club
TPC Sawgrass
Lake Nona
Doral (Blue Monster)
Jupiter Hills Golf Club



Brian Cenci

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2008, 03:12:25 PM »
Here is my top ten while I try to remember every where I have played.  This is a burden.  I'm starting to get concerned about my job and marriage, I need a rest.  Oops, it would by hypocritical to rate a course where I am a member or where my brother worked.

Riviera
Ballyneal
Pinehurst #2
Kiawah Island
Olympic Lake
Olympia Fields
Butler National
Bandon Dunes
Lake Side
Torrey Pines South


Is this in order?  How about a top 25...let us all see the "depth" of quality courses you've played.

-Brian

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2008, 03:19:59 PM »
Brian,

Don't get in a dick measuring contest with an Irishman on St. Patrick's day.  You will win but be sorry for the process.  I don't get your attitude about the depth of where I choose to or am invited to play.  The only course in my life that I ever played because I was not invited or because it was not public is Bellerive.  I will never do that again.  Despite the fact that I joined up with generous and enjoyable members I was disgusted by the process of having a pro call ahead.  I guess I had to learn the hard way.  btw...My list is in order and will post the second ten soon.

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2008, 03:24:14 PM »
My wife just called and we are still on, so here is my second ten:

First ten:

Riviera
Ballyneal
Pinehurst #2
Kiawah Island
Olympic Lake
Olympia Fields
St Louis CC.
Butler National
Bandon Dunes
Lake Side


Second ten:

Torrey Pines South
Erin Hills
Bandon Trails
Briarwood
Lookout Mountain
Lawsonia Links
Canyata
Pacific Dunes
Bandon Crossings
Bellerive





« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 05:25:40 PM by John Kavanaugh »

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2008, 03:29:43 PM »
Five more to make it 25.  It is really difficult to remember everywhere i have played.

Pasatiempo
Valhalla
Glen Echo
French Lick Ross
Beverly



There you go 25 in order until I remember somewhere else.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 05:26:16 PM by John Kavanaugh »

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2008, 03:41:38 PM »
Hmmm... West to East.

Riviera
Spyglass
Pebble
Bayonet
San Fran CC
Olympic
Shadow Creek
Greyhawk - Both
Troon North
Kansas City Country Club
Hazeltine
Shoreacres
Butler National
Medinah #3
Beverly
Olympia Fields - North
Whistling Straits
Chicago Golf
Blackwolf Run - River
Point O' Woods
Oakland Hills
Isleworth CC
Lake Nona
TPC Sawgrass

[Torrey Pines Intentionally Omitted]

John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2008, 03:43:37 PM »
Everyone sure does love voting on courses where they are members.  Who can blame em?  I knew I had played somewhere nice in Florida so Black Diamond Quarry just in...Rustic out.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 03:49:46 PM by John Kavanaugh »

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