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Tommy Williamsen

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How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« on: March 14, 2008, 01:31:31 PM »
It seems that this web site might affect the rankings.
As a result of discussions here it might influence which courses panelists play.

It also appears that there are more GW panelists that are on this site than there are from GD.   Since there are only 450 GW panelists compared to over 800 for GD it takes fewer ratings to influence the outcome.  That might explain the difference in such courses as Ballyneal, which is a godson of the site, and Kingsley which has gotten its deserved praise. 

I'm not arguing the merits of the differences only the influence.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike Sweeney

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 01:42:19 PM »
Ran was the guest speaker at last nights Golfweek Rater Conference in Pinehurst. Pretty much sums it up!

If Brad has some sort of Spitzer-like day and decides to throw away his entire career by making Kavanaugh a Golfweek rater, I believe that I will be the only one standing that is NOT a rater of some sort!

Wayne stick with me!  :D

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JESII

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 01:43:41 PM »
come on Sweeney...I'm with you!
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Mike Sweeney

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 01:48:06 PM »
Quote from: JES II on March 14, 2008, 01:43:41 PM
come on Sweeney...I'm with you!

Sully,

It must be some sort of reverse discrimination against Philly and former Philly guys, RATERS DONT LIKE CHEESESTEAKS!
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JESII

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 01:59:39 PM »
Somethin' wrong with these guys?





Tommy,

I'd follow up with...how much difference do the rankings themselves actually make?
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 02:07:36 PM »
Quote from: JES II on March 14, 2008, 01:59:39 PM
Somethin' wrong with these guys?





Tommy,

I'd follow up with...how much difference do the rankings themselves actually make?

We have had that discussion.  I am only asking about influence.  It seems to me that GCA impacts the rankings.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 02:10:33 PM »
It seems that way to me as well...
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Sean Leary

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2008, 02:37:18 PM »
Might it partially explain which course is number 1 (more so) and which course is number 10 (less so)on the GW classic rankings as well....?
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John Kavanaugh

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2008, 02:51:29 PM »
Given that there are 18 Fazio's on the Modern list, I would say not at all.
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Jason Mandel

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2008, 03:10:03 PM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on March 14, 2008, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: JES II on March 14, 2008, 01:43:41 PM
come on Sweeney...I'm with you!

Sully,

It must be some sort of reverse discrimination against Philly and former Philly guys, RATERS DONT LIKE CHEESESTEAKS!


Here's another Philly guy that is not a rater of any sort  :)  I guess we just love our philadelphia courses too much to get around the country and rate!

Jason
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You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

JESII

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 03:15:53 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 14, 2008, 02:51:29 PM
Given that there are 18 Fazio's on the Modern list, I would say not at all.

Surely he's built more than 18 courses...
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 03:16:33 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 14, 2008, 02:51:29 PM
Given that there are 18 Fazio's on the Modern list, I would say not at all.

John, I thought about that myself.  Yet, it seems that it does help to explain why some of the darlings on this site are so highly ranked on GW.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Adam Clayman

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2008, 03:29:33 PM »
Tommy, Sand Hills was rated #1 before there ever was a site. Certainly it's one of the darlings. Why is it one? My take is that it was thoughtfully designed, Placed into and fits a natural setting and is a great golf course.
Since this website started many of the threads and posts attempt to clarify the minute (to some) details that make one course better than others.

Nowadays, many of the newer members of this DG did not have the luxury of reading those old threads and posts. Many actually appear to have entered the fray with their own version of greatness. The only difference I see in some of those old post and posters is that this new breed fails to justify their opinion. The attitude appears to be that's how they feel and nothing more needs to be learned.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Mitch Hantman

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 03:32:46 PM »
Mike,

Since you brought it up, other that Pat's and Geno's, where is the best cheesesteak in Philly?

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BVince

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 03:59:06 PM »
I think some courses are definitely impacted from the hype they receive on this website.  However that may be good or bad because of the expectations.  If a good course lives up to the hype, it probably will receive a better rating than someone stumbling upon it.  If the course does not live up to the hype, the rater might subconsciously feel let down and give it a lower rating.  Good or bad, I certainly think there is some level of impact.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 04:00:37 PM by Bryon Vincent »
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

wsmorrison

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 05:31:23 PM »
Mitch,

I think Pat's and Geno's are among the worst cheesesteak places in the city.  For my money, I'll take Jim's at 431 North 62nd St. near Haverford Ave.  It is superb and fortunately, nothing like the tourist stops like Pat's, Geno's and the Jim's at 4th and South Street (where all the hippest meet, apologies to the Orlons).

Sweeney,

Don't worry, I'm with you and Sully.  Non-raters Unite!
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Mike Sweeney

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 06:50:38 PM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on March 14, 2008, 05:31:23 PM

Sweeney,

Don't worry, I'm with you and Sully.  Non-raters Unite!

Okay, let's rephrase.

"PURIST UNITE !!"

To be fair, reports say that 50% of the GW Raters never heard of GCA.com last night.
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Mitch Hantman

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 07:33:02 PM »
Wayne,

I've been to only three in Philly, and Jim's was the first one I ate at.

Back to golf architecture, did you ever follow up on Glen Head/ Women's National?
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wsmorrison

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 07:45:33 PM »
Mitch,

I spoke to your friend, Marty, and got a little bit of information on Womens' National, now Glen Head.  George Holland, the historian at Creek Club found billing records (the club was part of Creek Club for a time) that shows significant payments to Flynn in 1926 and 1927 (>$15,000).  I have yet to determine what Flynn did there, but the bunkering looks nothing like another nearby Emmet, St. George's.  It is possible that Flynn remodeled the bunkers as a 1940 aerial shows marked differences as compared to the Emmet plan.

Now, back to cheesesteaks.  I hope you didn't go to the Jim's on South Street.  The original one on 62nd Street is the best.  Mama's on Belmont Ave is a different style, but quite good.  A belly bomber at 2 lbs or so.
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JESII

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 07:49:02 PM »
2 LB. cheesesteak!

You are a sick man!

Steve's in the Northeast is my favorite.
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Chip Gaskins

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 07:49:58 PM »
Quote
To be fair, reports say that 50% of the GW Raters never heard of GCA.com last night.

not to be obvious but that means 50% have heard of GCA.com, 200-300 raters have? 

thus maybe 100 of them read this (like many of us did before we had the balls to join) site without being registered members.  lurk and learn i call it. 

therefore i can't imagine the thoughts, critiques, praise, etc...don't creep into their thoughts and ranking submittals. 

but why should that matter, this site has become the Wikipedia, so to speak, of golf course architecture.

good for us, or those of us (not me) that add the the knowledge and value (the philly crowd, UK and Aussie crowd, NorCal, and all the architects, etc) to this site that has had the ability to educate and YES affect course rankings.
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wsmorrison

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 08:12:43 PM »
Sully,

I can't finish a Mama's steak...any more.  Ever been to Chink's in the Northeast?  Some Chinese cultural society tried to sue the owner, but it was dropped.  That was the guy's nickname and he meant no slur.
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JESII

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 08:15:35 PM »
Nope!
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Jerry Kluger

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Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 08:19:44 PM »
How about White House in Atlantic City - great subs and cheesesteaks.

How about an Italian hot dog or sausage at Jimmy Buff's --  will clog your arteries faster than anything known to man.
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Kyle Harris

Re: How much affect does Golfclubatlas.com have on the rankings?
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 08:38:22 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on March 14, 2008, 08:19:44 PM
How about White House in Atlantic City - great subs and cheesesteaks.

How about an Italian hot dog or sausage at Jimmy Buff's --  will clog your arteries faster than anything known to man.

No Atlantic City establishment sells subs - you can't buy a submarine from a restaurant - go to your local shipyard.

Or were you speaking of a hoagie?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 09:01:59 PM by Kyle Harris »
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