[John Kavanaugh]

Once again we are being insulted by Golfweek by pretending that Ballyneal is a seaside course.  The free copy of Golfweek was sitting out at LCCC yesterday and when conducting a small poll it was found that everyone who viewed the cover thought Ballyneal was set on a large body of water.  Why do the editors of the magazine believe that your typical golfer will not accept that an inland course can be great.  Why do they not believe that architecture can stand on its own.  Am I wrong or did they struggle with the choice of Chambers Bay over Ballyneal and decided just to morph the designs into one.

How bout those ads...Congrats.  I will say that people suddenly get why I trip to Bandon.  Stunning pull out.

[Scott Weersing]

What was in the pull out?

[John Kavanaugh]

They are like postcards with pictures of each of the existing Bandon Courses.  I had a guy bring the publication to me asking if this is really where I played.  He was amazed.

[Adam Clayman]

John, Is this your first rodeo?
 Those postcards have been used for awhile now.
 As for the premise about seaside illusions. I challenge you to visit any sand based region, with dune formations and not feel that an ocean was just beyond the horizon.
 Sheryl s the one who keeps saying, "doesn't it look like there's an ocean just over that hill?" when we have driven through many of these inland pockets. Be it NM., ID., NE., Eastern WA. So, it isn't your arch enemy Golfweek that's providing an illusion it's mother nature.

[John Kavanaugh]

John, Is this your first rodeo?
 Those postcards have been used for awhile now.
 As for the premise about seaside illusions. I challenge you to visit any sand based region, with dune formations and not feel that an ocean was just beyond the horizon.
 Sheryl s the one who keeps saying, "doesn't it look like there's an ocean just over that hill?" when we have driven through many of these inland pockets. Be it NM., ID., NE., Eastern WA. So, it isn't your arch enemy Golfweek that's providing an illusion it's mother nature.

Adam,

I had not touched a Golfweek in years and thought the picture was Chambers Bay until my friend layed the copy on my lap.  I wish someone could post the cover on this thread so we could discuss the extent of the photoshoping.  I believe that informing the general golfing public that large bodies of water are not a required element of great architecture is an important issue.  This was a wonderful opportunity missed.

[Adam Clayman]

John, I doubt the image was doctored, other than color saturation.

Dick Durance original photo below.

[John Kavanaugh]

For one.  That might be the worst hole at Ballyneal.  For two.  I see a distinct ocean horizon brushed under the clouds.  I do not believe that the bottom of that type of cloud is perfectly flat.  Thanks.

[Adam Clayman]

Now I know you're off your rocker. Drinking this early cannot be a good thing

[John Kavanaugh]

Adam,

Do you have more DD pictures you could post?  I would enjoy evaluating the possible options that may have been open to the editors.  Would you agree that this may be the least greatest hole on the course?

[Garland Bayley]

Now I know you're off your rocker. Drinking this early cannot be a good thing

No Adam,

Having water on the brain must make one think that water can be suspened above the earth, instead of just vapor.

Sorry, John, couldn't resist. Adam is right. If that is the picture you are refering to, then you are completely out to lunch.

[John Kavanaugh]

Next time I am out at receptacle of free issues I will compare the Durnance photo with the cover photo.  I will raise another beer to being correct once again.  I can't wait.

[Adam Clayman]

John, Check them out ballyneal .com.

I do not agree with that statement. This whole hole makes the ones that follow have to be great. I'm not sure any of them, are better individually. Just collectively. I believe this is the very first hole Jim Urbina found, and, when the decision was made to move the earth on the ninth hole, this hole (and the whole routing) fell into place.
 This hole is sexy, fun and elastic in how it plays day to day. It temps, teases and deceives with it's undulations and uphill nature. It's putting green is so good Neil Regan spent loads of extra time challenge putting every round. Air breaking putts off the center moguls and just plain being creative. 17's green is likely the only one I like better, even if I did lose dinner to Doak on it.

[Mark Smolens]

Can't think of a better place to lose dinner tho can you?

[Jim Nugent]

I had not touched a Golfweek in years and thought the picture was Chambers Bay until my friend layed the copy on my lap. 

That was my first thought, too.  Does the course really look like that from that angle, or did they touch up the photo? 

[Ryan Farrow]

John might be on to something, if you look at the colors of the clouds they do not match the shadows on the course. It seems like the background was doctored but to say it was done purposefully to misrepresent the ocean, might be a little... never mind its John, nothing he says surprises me.

[Michael Robin]

Ryan, I say the photo is legit. We're looking in an easterly direction towards the 8th green, with the long shadows indicating late afternoon, meaning dark is on its way from the east so the decay of light seems right, and add the storm in the distance which will further block the sun, and you have broken clouds in the foreground that are away from the storm and refracting the days remaining sunlight, and that typically photographers shoot these shots in the early AM or near Magic Hour in the PM to have a lower angle of the sun that draws the shadows and thus illuminating the contours, and that you get some of the most amazing skies I've ever seen out there, leads me to believe that Dick's photo is real. That being said, he probably did heighten the color saturation of the blue sky and the green grass in PhotoShop.

[Kalen Braley]

Michael,

The shadows seem to be running horizontally across the fairway, so based on the sun setting in the West, wouldn't this mean one is looking in the northernly direction?

Either way, I'm not sure why anyone is aghast at the thought of a slightly doctored photo.  Happens all the time to accentuate the pciture.  I suspect those clouds are really there, just not nearly as dark as shown in the picture.  As shown, they provide a good contrast to highlight the actual golf hole.

I wouldn't equate dark looming clouds with being near a large body of water though.  Could be as simple as a weather front or thunderheads moving thru.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,

I am off to the land where free copies lay but will say this:  My problem is with the notion that great courses must lay by large bodies of water.  I believe that if natural or not that this picture indicates thus to golfers who will never know the difference.  I simply believe that Golfweek missed an opportunity to show what can be done on less expensive more available types of land.  They have one shot a year and blew it.  I must be noted that this publication does not sell over the counter so sales were not an issue.  Their choice should have been purely based on the education of an unknowing readership and not in furthering the illusion that Bandon is the perfect model.

[Norbert P]

. . . everyone who viewed the cover thought Ballyneal was set on a large body of water.         . . .           

Isn't Ballyneal on the Ogie Aquifer?

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

I am off to the land where free copies lay but will say this:  My problem is with the notion that great courses must lay by large bodies of water.  I believe that if natural or not that this picture indicates thus to golfers who will never know the difference.  I simply believe that Golfweek missed an opportunity to show what can be done on less expensive more available types of land.  They have one shot a year and blew it.  I must be noted that this publication does not sell over the counter so sales were not an issue.  Their choice should have been purely based on the education of an unknowing readership and not in furthering the illusion that Bandon is the perfect model.

John,

I don't have a problem with your assertion, I think its very valid in fact.

But if the picture show in this thread was the one they are referring to, I just don't know how it was inferred it was next to a body of water, because I would have never came to that conclusion.  Perhaps its because I was born and raised near the Pacific that it never occured to me.

[Michael Robin]

Kalen -

Actually, upon further review, I think several of my assumptions are off(the angle of the shadows actually suggests morning) so I'm gonna go jump in the ocean that's just over that dune.

[Adam Clayman]

  I simply believe that Golfweek missed an opportunity to show what can be done on less expensive more available types of land. 

John, I can almost guarantee there was no land where a golf course was built in the last three years where land was cheaper. Do you have any basis fir this ridiculous assumption? How much do you think the price per acre was?

[Garland Bayley]

  I simply believe that Golfweek missed an opportunity to show what can be done on less expensive more available types of land.

John, I can almost guarantee there was no land where a golf course was built in the last three years where land was cheaper. Do you have any basis fir this ridiculous assumption? How much do you think the price per acre was?

Adam,

I think you misunderstood John. I believe he was suggesting Ballyneal really be highlighted, because it was built where the land was cheap.

[JSPayne]

Kalen,

I am off to the land where free copies lay but will say this:  My problem is with the notion that great courses must lay by large bodies of water.  I believe that if natural or not that this picture indicates thus to golfers who will never know the difference.  I simply believe that Golfweek missed an opportunity to show what can be done on less expensive more available types of land.  They have one shot a year and blew it.  I must be noted that this publication does not sell over the counter so sales were not an issue.  Their choice should have been purely based on the education of an unknowing readership and not in furthering the illusion that Bandon is the perfect model.

Great courses MUST lay by large bodies of water? Um.....maybe you should leaf through the rest of the magazine John. Seems to me at quick glance that over 50% of courses on both Top 10 lists from Modern and Classic don't "lay by large bodies of water". At least not to the extent that you believe the cover photo depicts.

[John Kavanaugh]

JS,

Can you provide an explanation for Pacific Dunes being close to 1,5 points higher than Ballyneal if not for the ocean?

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