Gary Player: Bad Attitude=Bad courses?

[ward peyronnin]

Ot guys but I am disgusted with the man and here is the text my letter to Golf Mg regarding this month's interview of this sad fellow which they probably won't print:


Gentlemen,

Interview Gary Player if you must but do not grant him the credibility due a spokesman or elder statesman of golf. For years he has exhibited classic short man complex behaviors; self righteous self promotion and compulsiveness that color his outlook. Who can say they hear great Gary Player stories or someone thrilled at the chance to play a Gary Player course( are any on any rating lists?) and where has his fan base ever been. So he draws attention to himself by stunts like his gross doping accusations conveniently exposed just prior to The Open.

As misguided as any of these are his misleading statements regarding Type I diabetes in your interview though. To explain his incessant boasting about his fitness he connects the incidence of this disease to poor exercise and eating among our children. My son has Type I diabetes and there is absolutely no connection between the onset of this auto-immune triggered disease and fitness and a disservice to do so. I can only blame poor journalism or Mr. Player’s temptation to self promote for this misrepresentation.  Perhaps his farm is the place for Mr. Player to be these days. 

Ward Peyronnin
Evansville, In.

I guess what may be relevant here is my feeling ever since  as a kid i saw the guy draped in black goose stepping up the fairway beside Jack and Arnie that there is just something wrong about the guy. I could say more but it just spirals into a strong antipathy and personal attack. Could his attitude, so transparent in the way he comports himself, be the reason why i have yet to see very favorable content regarding his design work here or anywhere?
I've only ever played Couger Point of his in Kiowa and that was before i knew enough to assess it. What's the sense on this site? Back to the farm and none too soon?

[Pat Brockwell]

OK, You don't like Mr. Player. Not many great players become great architects. New thread please.

[Patrick Hodgdon]

I had the unfortunate luck to "win" a round at the Player course at Twin Eagles in Naples. Probably on my top 5 least favorite layouts I've ever played. Some very goofy holes, some very boring holes, and nothing of any interest imho. I am also curious if anyone has had an enjoyable round on a Player course?

[ward peyronnin]

Pat,

People do talk and sometimes favorably, about Greg Norman, Davis Love, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Nick Faldo, Ben Crenshaw, Tom Watson courses and Player has been at it longer than most of them.

Doo you like Player's design style whatever that is?

[mike_beene]

Ward, I am not trying to talk you out of your views,but feel compelled to share my experience with the man and to be fair it was a couple of hour meeting ,the first half just the two of us. I found him to be nice,engaging and interested . Of course I have been wrong before,but I really like and respect the man.

[Bob_Huntley]

Ward,

I have no idea how old you are and whether or not you know much much about "goose-stepping", but to equate that with Gary Player walking up a fairway is pure bullshit. and you are smart enough to know it.

There are many things that make the man, some of which are anathema to a few but cause adulation to others. Player has his  faults,  but to assign him an almost fascist persona is wrong and misguided.


Bob

[rchesnut]

I've never met Gary Player and can't speak to his character.  I have, however, played Blackmoor in Myrtle Beach, and thoroughly enjoyed the round.  It's a solid design, with some very good holes that challenge a low handicapper but still quite playable for the average golfer.  Greens weren't terribly interesting, but overall the course was above average, a Doak 6.   

[Phil_the_Author]

Ward,

This reflects neither an attempt to get you to change your mind nor my personal feelings as to Gary Player either personally or professionally, but you did ask, "Who can say they hear great Gary Player stories?"

I have a friend, a lovely college professor, who a few years ago at the age 50+, decided that it was about time that she learned how to play golf. While in Florida last year, she was at the far end of a driving range at the Ritz Carlton facility hitting balls when "an older gentleman" walked over and watched her hitting for a few minutes.

After a while he spoke up and asked if she might mind if he gave her a few suggestions. He spent the next hour with her working on her swing and then wished her well. As he began walking away she called over to him after realizing that she hadn't asked him his name. He answere her simply saying, "Gary Player" and walked away.

She thanked him and went back to hitting golf balls. It was only when she met her husband for dinner later in the day that she learned who "Gary Player" actually was...

Even arrogance can occasionally exhibit humility... 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ive only had one conversation with Gary Player and it was probably the worlds shortest convesate, so i cant comment.
GP " hi this is Gary Player from South Africa, would you like one of my golf acadameys at St Cleres?"
AS "No"
<phone goes down>
He was a great golfer though, but he criticised non golfer architects because we cant hit a 3 iron straight... I reckon most on here can draw a line straighter.

[cary lichtenstein]

I've been with Gary Player a nember of times and find him a refreshing, inspiring gentleman. He goes out of his way to be friendly and give back.

[Joe Bausch]

I've had one GP experience and it was a beaut.  2003 SR PGA Champ at Aronimink, 1st round, I get him, Floyd, and Kite to score for.  I had heard that GP could be interesting after a round in the scorers tent, and I was ready.  RF had played poorly and was outta there before I could sit down and wasn't interested in triple-checking his score w/ mine.  TK was super polite, and after reading off the scores, again thanked me for volunteering.  Then GP proceeds to have me read the scores for the front, then the back, then the back again, then the front again, the front in reverse, back in reverse, then from memory he recalls each score himself, etc, etc.  TK has decided to stay in the trailer and experience the whole thing.  When finally done checking his score every way under creation, GP goes on this long speech to Kite about why he does this relating to being DQed in a GGO round years ago.  "So Tom, the last thing I do before leaving the scorer's tent is make darn sure I haven't signed for a wrong score", he says.  Then Tom quips, "Well, that is very nice Gary.  But I would suggest the last thing you do today before leaving the scorer's tent is zip up your fly".  GP had gone to the player's restroom right after the round and had forgotten to zip up.  Priceless.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Ward - Player's course - Hawthorne Valley - was on the GW top 100 modern list for 10 years peaking in the mid-50s.  Granted, Tom Walker was on lead GCA there and Player had few visits, but what you cited was incorrect.

JC

[Ray Richard]

I worked as a project manager for a developer working with GP on a golf course project. He was working with Karl Litten and Jeffrey Myers at the time and our relationship was very good. Gary is quite opinionated about South African politics and nutrition, you let him speak his mind, and you move on, just don't offer him a sugary carbonated beverage.
He is very charismatic and he did a fine job assisting us with marketing. His course work was hands on and quite enlightening.

[Dan Herrmann]

Goose-stepping?  Where do you get that idea?

Ward - I'd be careful with metaphors.  I really don't think you meant to call him a facist, did you?

[Rich Goodale]

Ward

I've always felt a bit uncomfortable with Gary and his seemingly self-serving piety, but I'm just one of those short guys myself.  I gave him the opportunity of a lifetime last year to write the forward for my Carnoustie book (JacK N was kind enough to do so for the St. Andrews one) but the wee man ignored me..

PS--the only course(s) of his I've played is the 27 @ Pacific Golf Club in San Clemente, and as I've said, it's not bad at all, particularly for the terrain.  I'd play any of his courses again, based on those experiences.

Joe B

Definitely a post/anecdote for the GCA.dom hall of fame.....

Rich

[JohnH]

Always been an admirer of Player.  It must have been inordinately difficult to be in the same era as Palmer and Nicklaus, and being a smaller man from another country, although I'm sure he would never gripe about that.  I have nothing earth shattering to add, other than a minor instance following a round during the Senior TPC in Dearborn in 2001.  He was graciously signing autographs to mostly kids and was incessantly quipping to each about their eating and drinking habits.  A bit overdone I thought, as most of the kids had blank looks on their faces.  If they got the message to go with them as they matured, I guess all was not lost.

[Brad Tufts]

Hmm...I always thought of him as a "grand man of golf."

I re-read the original post looking for hints of sarcasm...but apparently it was stated with a straight face...

[John Kavanaugh]

I understand that you guys can't comprehend anything you read so here it is.  Gary Player and Golf Magazine are saying that bad parenting can lead to Type 1 diabetes.  I have met Ward's son and had no idea that he suffered from this or any other disease.  He is a beautiful, athletic, wonderfully behaved young man.  Gary Player and Golf Magazine need to print a retraction.

[John_Cullum]

I recall Gary Player was putting his name on a course under construction at Hilton head about 25 years ago. In the local newspaper's article, he boasted how the containment mounding was designed to keep the player's ball in play to make things easier for them. I was quite turned off by that back then.

I have played a few of his designs without being very impressed until recently. The Player 9 at Champion's Retreat might be the best of the three; although, I expect Nicklaus really did all of Player's work for him

[ward peyronnin]

Joe B- Another good golf story; how many good tennis stories has one ever heard?
Bob et al- If i wanted to call him a fascist i would have called him a fascist but I perhaps played too loose with the adjective. Strutting isn't correct; stalking ? stamping? whatever, he seemed to march up the fairway with a chip on his shoulder in my recollection.
Adrian that is the kind of info relevant to my question but ultimately

Thank you John you do get it. Player's status should'nt give him a free pass to impose himself on design or issues that affect the rest of us personally.

[Matt_Ward]

I've had the pleasure in interviewing Gary Player for a lower profile publication and I found his candor and approachability to be quite different than some have suggested here.

Player impressed me because he said things for the interview that went beyond the American-centric model that far too often players here in the States seem to believe. Player exposed for me to an internationalistic aspect of what golf is really about and how America is a major part of that element but not the only force.

In regards to the golf design business I can only say a handful of things tied to a few courses of note I have played -- Hawthorne Valley in WV is one of them -- Olde York in Columbus, NJ is another. Neither of them is really national class IMHO and I think it's fair to say much of the designs he has linked his name to are merely functional golf at best. Nonetheless, his reputation as a golfer speaks for itself.

[Bob_Huntley]

Joe B- Another good golf story; how many good tennis stories has one ever heard?
Bob et al- If i wanted to call him a fascist i would have called him a fascist but I perhaps played too loose with the adjective. Strutting isn't correct; stalking ? stamping? whatever, he seemed to march up the fairway with a chip on his shoulder in my recollection.
Adrian that is the kind of info relevant to my question but ultimately

Thank you John you do get it. Player's status should'nt give him a free pass to impose himself on design or issues that affect the rest of us personally.

Ward,

I am afraid I misjudged your comment. I did not read where Player had indicted all parents in the Diabetes problem, had I done so,  I would, like you, have been outraged.

Having known him for over forty years, he can be dogmatic and annoying but on the whole the good by far outweighs the bad.

Bob

[Jason Topp]

I am afraid I misjudged your comment. I did not read where Player had indicted all parents in the Diabetes problem, had I done so,  I would, like you, have been outraged.

Having known him for over forty years, he can be dogmatic and annoying but on the whole the good by far outweighs the bad.

Bob

Even though I find his style a bit distasteful, I find his willingness to speak up about performance enhancing drugs, poor diet and exercize refreshing.

My wife has type I diabetes and I did not take offense to his comments at all.  I read his comments as really directed at type II diabetes even though the language was inartful.  Type I is not influenced by parenting but Type II can be.  Weight is widely considered a stressor on the pancreas that helps cause the problem. 

Heavier people have Type II more often.  Diet and excersize affect weight.  Player is right when he says that. 

[George Pazin]

Mr. Player is a lot like most successful people; after awhile, they tend to think they know everything about everything. Most never realize that success in one - or even several - areas does not translate to knowing everything.

Still, on balance, I'd rather see more people with his zest for life than the alternative.

[Tim Leahy]

I have played and enjoyed my rounds at Steele Canyon in San Diego and Mission Hills Player course in Palm Springs. I have never met the man, but hope his remarks were addressed at Type II diabetes and were intended to help children.  I have always enjoyed his stories and attitude towards life.