Duplicate Thread: (was "Donald Ross wouldn't recognize...")

[Dan Herrmann]

Good article by Whitten (2005):  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_6_56/ai_n14707636

Donald Ross wouldn't recognize these greens: the truth about Pinehurst's special surfaces: not much of the old master's work remains

PINEHURST NO. 2 HAS THE GREATEST SET OF GREENS IN ALL OF GOLF. They're the epitome of what generations of Donald Ross fans have called the crowning achievement of the legendary golf architect, a one-of-a-kind set of crowned greens that slope in every direction, with roll-offs that propel balls down into closely mowed chipping swales.

Pinehurst's greens are turtlebacks. They look wide but play narrow. They're less about putting than they are about hitting a perfect approach shot, or an outstanding recovery shot, to an ideal spot, regardless of where the flag is.

Green for green, there are none more challenging than those at Pinehurst No. 2.

And they're nothing like Donald Ross intended. Not in size, not in slope, and certainly not in speed. Not even in the shapes of the bunkers that guard them. "They're totally different from what Mr. Ross designed," says golf architect Pete Dye, who played Pinehurst No. 2 almost daily in 1946 while in the Army and stationed at nearby Fort Bragg, N.C. Dye also competed several times in the North and South Amateur on the course until the late '50s. He remembers the original greens were broad, rolling and receptive. So does his wife, Alice, who first played No. 2 in the late '40s.font face

The rest of the article is at the website.

What do you think?  Do Pinehurst #2's greens reflect Ross, or are they just victims of time and entropy?

[George Pazin]

Dan, there was a huge discussion of this topic when the article came out - I'll try to find it in the archives.

[Chip Gaskins]

i suppose the question is....how many (which ones) other Ross courses have green that look like #2?

growing up in north carolina, i have played many Ross courses, including #2, and can't say very many of them mirror #2 from a greens standpoint.  (at least the severity)

another good question is, if #2 greens truely are fundamentally different than other Ross greens, then when did they start changing and why

[Jeff_Brauer]

Pete Dye, among others, says what Whitten says, and he saw those greens and talked to Ross about them before his death.  Off hand, I can't think of many more crowned Ross greens. 

For that matter, Richard Mandell's new book on Pinehurst, and all its old photos should pretty well settle the question of whether any Ross greens remain around Pinehurst. 

[John Moore II]

The green complexes at Pine Needles are much like the ones at #2, but the greens themselves at Pine Needles are not as severe. Only the run-offs on the sides are so severe.

[Dan Herrmann]

Duplicate thread:  Please see http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,18110.0.html