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David_Tepper

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Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« on: February 06, 2008, 01:38:02 PM »
The lead story in today's Press & Journal is about a golf & housing development near the Blairs College in Aberdeen that is going thru the planning approval process.  Looks like the course is to be designed by local hero Paul Lawrie.

www.thisisnorthscotland.com
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 09:04:58 AM by David_Tepper »

Dean Stokes

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2008, 01:46:34 PM »
Maybe that's what he's been doing since he won The Open - learning golf course architecture.
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 10:34:39 PM »
David
This one has been on the go for several years .

Its your typical "lets build a golf course around an old house" type place .

After several false starts , the developers have brought Mr Lawrie on board in a hope it would be looked upon more favourably with a local involved in the designing of it .

http://www.paullawriegolf.com/news/hereandnow.asp
Monday 3rd September
I was up early this morning seeing Neil Marr, it went very well and he said it was all looking really good and I have to keep doing the same things.   I then went to Blairs College to have a walk around and have a look at where the holes will go.   It's exciting to get started on my first project.  ::)


Meanwhile at nearby Stonehaven , I have no idea what is happening with the Nicklaus "Championship" Course at Ury Estate .

There was this snippet in the Record the other day :

Jack Nicklaus Expands Stonehaven Golf Plans
Feb 4 2008

GOLF legend Jack Nicklaus has insisted his new course will be a major boost to the north-east economy.

Nicklaus, who is creating one of his Signature golf courses at the Ury Estate in Stonehaven, Kincardineshire, has added a hotel, golf lodges, a spa and a fitness centre to existing plans.

The plans have been passed to Aberdeenshire Council.

Nicklaus said the 18-hole championship course will be "a great asset to the community" .

Stonehaven and District Community Council chairman David Fleming said: "It's clear the community wants development and if it is to be done, they want it done on this site area and to this standard."


But I cant understand why they have just sown Barley in the fields that are to be used for the course ?

Best Regards
Brian

David_Tepper

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 11:25:14 PM »
Brain -

If all 3 of these projects (Trump, Nicklaus & Lawrie) get built in and around Aberdeen, do you really think there is enough demand for both the golf and the housing?

I know the economy in the Aberdeen area has been pretty strong due to the North Sea oil business, but is there a market for 500-1,000 new homes selling for 500,000 pounds or more and 3 very up-market golf clubs?

DT   

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008, 11:50:04 PM »
David
I wish I could answer you , but honestly I have no idea .

All I know , its NOT about golf .

Richard_Cutler

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2008, 03:52:37 AM »
Brian,

As barley is fairly cheap it can be sown into open fields, not to produce a crop but simply to stabalise the soil. It also has the ability to germinate at soil temperatures of around 7 degrees C.  so it will establish quickly at this time of year.
Obviously March/April is often very windy in NE Scotland and if there is some dry weather then open fields can make a very big mess!
Sowing barley is a cheap way to prevent this happening.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2008, 06:06:03 AM »
Brian,

As well as this, we recently had Aberdeen Council inviting tenders for the Redevelopment of the Hazlehead Golf Course facilities... I'd be interested to see if any GCA's have aligned themselves with developers in this venture...

The original talk of "restoring" the MacKenzie course was interesting... that said, I've no idea how much MacKenzie really had to do with this course... I may need to do some investigation... You any more info?

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2008, 08:03:21 AM »
Brian
What's the latest on Trump and the Menie Estate?  It all seems to have gone very quiet recently.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

David_Tepper

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2008, 09:04:07 AM »
Andrew M. -

The lead story in today's Press & Journal is about the political fallout from the Trump project. It looks like the powers that be in the Scottish government are reviewing the situation and the Trump people are threatening to take the project to Northern Ireland. My guess is it will be a few months before s final decision is made.

www.thisisnorthscotland.com

DT 

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2008, 10:28:22 AM »
David
Thanks for that update, with Edinburgh currently sitting on the application no doubt in due course Trump will get the permissions he needs.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2008, 10:18:53 PM »
Richard
Thanks for the education , the planting of barley was a real head scratcher to me .

Ally
There was an article in November , on Hazlehead , in a local sports mag [not online sadly] , and the developers were adamant that this project would go through planning this year.

There was also quotes from Tom Watson , "cant wait to get started" type things , so looks like he IS involved .

Most of the article was about how sub-air systems work , and how they will be used at Hazlehead  ::)

I guess MacKenzie had a big hand in the building of Hazlehead , but surely "restoring" will be difficult considering the local council dynamited the course after he left because they disagreed with his turfing over the granite boulders , rather then blowing them up .

Its amazing how many Aberdeen locals now claim Hazlehead as a MacKenzie gem , yet have never heard of Spirit of St.Andrews , never mind read the book .

When the new pro. took over from Ian Smith at Hazlehead , he immediately renamed the club shop to 'MacKenzies' in some sort of tribute to the man , and the pointing out that Dr.Mac was pretty scathing about the course , and about Aberdonians in general didnt seem to bother him at all .

Ally , you really need to pick up a copy of Spirit of St.Andrews , and read MacKenzies comments for yourself .

Best Regards
Brian




Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2008, 11:40:14 PM »
David / Andrew
Dont know if you have seen this , but Trump has his eyes on The Wirral also :

http://www.thisiswirral.co.uk/display.var.2002748.0.billionaire_trump_eyes_wirral_town_for_golf_resort.php

US BILLIONAIRE Donald Trump is interested in building a golf resort in Hoylake.

The council is looking to build on the success of the 2006 Open Championship by developing a new resort in the town, near to the existing municipal course.

An executive working with the controversial property developer says the company is "excited" at the idea of investing in Hoylake.

Trump, whose mother is Scottish, is already trying to gain the right to construct a massive £1 billion links resort near to Aberdeen.

But his project manager Stuart Wheeler has been reported as saying the New York developer would "definitely be interested" in developing a golf resort in Wirral.

And he said the company's existing plans for Scotland could only be complemented by any plans they may have for Hoylake.

A technical assessment for a new golf resort has been carried out by Capita Symonds, and Wirral Council is in the process of preparing a prospectus in order to gauge potential private sector interest.

Council leader Steve Foulkes said: "Our ultimate ambition was for the Hoylake Open not to be a one-off.





Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2008, 06:08:29 AM »
Richard
Thanks for the education , the planting of barley was a real head scratcher to me .

Ally
There was an article in November , on Hazlehead , in a local sports mag [not online sadly] , and the developers were adamant that this project would go through planning this year.

There was also quotes from Tom Watson , "cant wait to get started" type things , so looks like he IS involved .

Most of the article was about how sub-air systems work , and how they will be used at Hazlehead  ::)

I guess MacKenzie had a big hand in the building of Hazlehead , but surely "restoring" will be difficult considering the local council dynamited the course after he left because they disagreed with his turfing over the granite boulders , rather then blowing them up .

Its amazing how many Aberdeen locals now claim Hazlehead as a MacKenzie gem , yet have never heard of Spirit of St.Andrews , never mind read the book .

When the new pro. took over from Ian Smith at Hazlehead , he immediately renamed the club shop to 'MacKenzies' in some sort of tribute to the man , and the pointing out that Dr.Mac was pretty scathing about the course , and about Aberdonians in general didnt seem to bother him at all .

Ally , you really need to pick up a copy of Spirit of St.Andrews , and read MacKenzies comments for yourself .

Best Regards
Brian





i didn't realise hazlehead was mentioned in 'spirit of st andrews'... never picked it up for some reason... always figured that i was happy with his 'golf architecture' book from 1920...

i will need to rectify that

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2008, 10:23:15 PM »
Ally
To be correct Hazlehead is not mentioned in the Spirit of St.Andrews , well not in name anyway , but it couldnt be any other course .

Dont expect to read much about the course either , there are more jokes about 'Mean Aberdonians' , than anything else  ::)

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2008, 12:04:59 AM »
//www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2105493.0.Fourth_major_golf_development_in_northeast_steps_up_to_tee.php

Fourth major golf development in north-east steps up to tee GRAEME SMITH March 10 2008
Plans for yet another major golf development in the north-east have taken a significant step forward.

A £1bn resort by Donald Trump is now with the Scottish Government for planning approval, signature courses by Jack Nicklaus and Paul Lawrie are in the pipeline and now another golfing legend, Tom Watson, is backing a project at council-owned Hazlehead in Aberdeen.

The main course at Hazlehead was originally designed by Alister MacKenzie, the internationally renowned architect of Augusta National in the US.

The MacKenzie Club consortium, headed by Aberdeen businessman Brian Hendry, hope they will be successful in taking it over later this year.

However, Ben Allen, of property specialists HLL Humberts Leisure, has revealed the course is attracting considerable interest.

On offer is a 90-year lease over the present two 18-hole courses, a nine-hole course, and a pitch and putt course with practice facilities and greenkeepers' accommodation. Mr Allen said he expected expressions of interest to range from schemes involving the golf courses and a new clubhouse, to major developments that would include hotels.

Mr Hendry said the total capital investment in his project could be as high as £100m. The courses, clubhouse and golf academy would cost £10m and in addition there would be a five-star hotel with 200 bedrooms and a conference centre costing £40m with additional facilities, including fishing, football pitches and an observatory.

‘We want Aberdeen to be on the tour so every year a PGA event comes’
 
Aberdeen City Council wants to ensure Hazlehead Golf Course remains open to the public, with pay-and-play golf available. The council also wants the development to encourage participation in golf with particular emphasis on the local community and identified groups of interest.

All the expressions of interest must be submitted by April 21 and a decision is expected during the summer. Mr Hendry said the MacKenzie Club proposal would be submitted by then.

"We hope we will be successful and take it over after the summer - the quicker the better," he said. "Tom Watson has visited the course and walked it with me and what we are trying to do is reinstate MacKenzie and that is important. We want Aberdeen to be scheduled on the tour so every year a PGA event comes to Aberdeen, all the hotels are booked and we bring in a massive amount to the economy at that time.

"The Trump development will be brilliant but what we have and the others don't is the golf course. We have a recognised jewel, we have a 1927 Alister MacKenzie course. We don't need to worry about creating a good golf course - we have that already."

He said they planned to make the course the first air-conditioned in Europe by installing a system which can remove moisture from the grass and control the soil temperature to create optimum conditions.

"As well as a great golf course, we will have a clubhouse at the top of the hill looking over Aberdeen - it will be a fantastic course five minutes from the centre of the city, playable for eight months of the year," he said.

"We love it that there is going to be Trump, Lawrie and Nicklaus courses which will complement each other. Donald Trump with advertising and marketing which is second to none will bring people in to Aberdeen who would not norm-ally come here.

"With the Hazlehead, Trump, Lawrie and Nicklaus courses, they could come to Aberdeen for a week and not be bored.

"We may not become Scotland's golfing Mecca - that will always be St Andrews - but if we put in four classics it could be a brilliant hub."

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2008, 12:53:06 AM »
And I have also just noticed that its our Mr Hiseman that is involved with the Paul Lawrie course :

http://www.paullawriegolf.com/news/hereandnow.asp

Yesterday, I met Robin Hiseman from European Golf Design (EGD) and Stuart Cruickshank from the Muir Group up at Blairs College for a walk around the land to see roughly where the golf holes might go.   It's the third time I've been up and the view gets better each time.   I was back this morning again at Blairs to speak to some press about the project.








David_Tepper

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 11:40:28 AM »
Brian -

Thanks for the updates and info. If all these projects actually materialize, Aberdeen will become a real golf hot spot.

P.S. I think Robin Hiseman did a very nice job with the 5 holes he added to the Struie Course at Dornoch.

DT

Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 05:25:06 AM »
David
I think Robin Hiseman will need all his skills to build anything half decent on that "side of a hill" .

Meanwhile , things are looking even gloomier today for the Aberdeen muni. golfer .

Golf course 'facing uncertainty'
The future of an Aberdeen golf course could be an uncertain one.

It is understood Aberdeen City Council could be seeking to make savings at its Auchmill course in the Bucksburn area as part of budget cuts.

Talks have been held with Auchmill Golf Club to try to find a possible solution.

A spokesman for Auchmill Golf Club said it could not afford to take over the running without a substantial subsidy.


Believe me , Auchmill is nothing special , but more and more , golf is all about hotels , houses , and money.

If only the marketing tool Dr. MacK. had visited Auchmill then surely it could be saved ?

All these courses being built in the area , yet I cant remember a time of so much gloom and doom , about golf in the North East of Scotland .  :-\

« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 05:26:38 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2008, 05:40:52 AM »
Brian,

Everything I've read from this Brian Hendry developer in the last few years fills me with dread about what they might do to Hazlehead.

There may be very little MacKenzie left in that course but there are definitely some beautiful traditional feeling parkland holes.

One thing is for sure - this will not be a restoration nor even a renovation.


Brian_Ewen

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Re: Another Golf/Housing Development Near Aberdeen Planned
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2008, 05:51:38 AM »
Ally
Would you save Auchmill ?

Definitely looks like golf is way down the priority list of Aberdeen City Council .

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