My home course: Musgrove Mill

[Tommy Williamsen]

Ran has posted Musgrove Mill in "My Home Course."  If you click on this link you can see a google satellite image.  We couldn't use it on the  piece becuse it is copyrighted.   

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Musgrove+Mill+golf+course&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wl

I hope you enjoy the piece on this course.  It is one of my favorite places to go.

I checked the link.  You have to click on the option labeled C and zoom in.

Here is a picture of the sixth green that didn't make it in the piece.



Here is an overhead from Google



Looking back at the elevated fifth tee.



This is the tee shot on ten



This is the cut off as much as you dare tee shot aroung the Enoree River.

 

[PThomas]

nice writeup and pics Tommy, thanks...looks and sounds like a great place

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Tommy.  I wish more of us would post My Home Course pieces.  The one I did should now be a My Ex Home Course, but these sorts of reviews are very helpful and a strong, but often overlooked component of the website.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Wow, do you get to play golf with Turboe? 

I have heard nothing but good things about this course, thanks for the write up.

[Jason Topp]

Thanks Tommy. The course looks tough.  Do higher handicappers enjoy it or do they get chewed up?

The 11th green reminds me of #3 at August National.  Is the comparison appropriate?

[David_Tepper]

Some pretty interesting looking greens.  We often read here (from certain posters) that modern greens are too flat and boring. That certainly does not appear to be the case with this course.

[Dale_McCallon]

I was fortunate enough to play Musgrove during one of the Dixie Cups a few years ago with Turboe.  Even though the day was not exactly a chamber of commerce day, the course is very memorable.  Best memories of the day was a birdie on number 9 and actually making par on 18 (Tommy is correct:  I can see how this hole could really kill a score).

Certainly the course has some very difficult holes and was a bit much for me too handle on a one time basis, but I did get a sense as Tommy says that it is a great retreat type course.  Some lodging and a great practice area all surrounded by what I could tell was a great staff.

Definitely a place worth checking out if you have the opportunity.

[Bill_McBride]

I had an enjoyable round there a couple of years ago with Darryl "Turboe" Boe.  The course is very strong indeed.  The only thing I'd love to see changed is the drainage, as the course sits low in a flood plain and was very wet the day we played.  It was still all the fun you could ask for, with challenging greens and exciting finishing holes for each nine.  The par 3 #7 proved to be too much of a challenge!

I really enjoyed the solitude and the nice facilities - low key clubhouse sitting above the course, and some neat cottages by the excellent practice area.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I do play with "Turboe." We Norwegians have to stick together.  In fact I will be down there after Easter.

[Dan Herrmann]

Wayne,
You'll be happy to know that my buddies on the board have forced me to do a "My home course" for the members!  So - it's coming!

[wsmorrison]

Dan,

I certainly had you in mind while I was typing away.  Good to hear.  Your fine course deserves to be profiled here.  It is getting warmer out Dan...

[Mike Sweeney]

I do play with "Turboe." We Norwegians have to stick together.  In fact I will be down there after Easter.

We need Turboe back on here, one of the true gentlemen of golf.

I played with Turboe and Mike Whitaker before this year's Dixie Cup. We missed a few holes on the back due to a downpour that felt like a 45 minute waterfall.

If you are looking for a fancy place, it is probably not for you. If you are looking for a casual atmosphere and a good bowl of soup and a beer where the staff will be your friends by the end of the meal, this is a place for you.

Okay with the concept that "GolfClubAtlas.com is presented to promote frank commentary on golf course architecture", I present the following.

The founders of MM wanted to be a Pine Valley of the South type of place. Golf only, penal golf course for serious and good golfers in a great remote property with cabins for overnight play. It has great greens, many in Pinehurst style. As a barely on a good day 8-10 handicap, I can get a little wild off the tee and have a preference for the width of C&C and Raynor off the tee. Somehow Pine Valley (1 play) seems more fun and yes easier off the tee than MM (also 1 play). I thought that the shots into greens on many holes at MM were great. The problem is that misses off the tee and to the green pretty much end up with double or X.

Case in point, is #18 where Tommy mentions that you can sit on the porch on 18 and watch the majority of players hit into the weeds. If that is the case..........

Now the course has been sold and the question is, what next? Cater to the Yankees with no game or to the locals that love the challenge of the current course?

If invited after this post, I would really like to head back and play the course a second time as visually it was very deceptive the first time around. Somehow the penal architecture of Pine Valley works in spades. At MM, it was a little too much for me again on this one day. It will be interesting to see what the new owner does.

[Bill_McBride]

I do play with "Turboe." We Norwegians have to stick together.  In fact I will be down there after Easter.

If invited after this post, I would really like to head back and play the course a second time as visually it was very deceptive the first time around. Somehow the penal architecture of Pine Valley works in spades. At MM, it was a little too much for me again on this one day. It will be interesting to see what the new owner does.

Let me know when, I'd love it.

Probably need to avoid mid summer though! 

[Dan Herrmann]

Tommy W - by the way, wonderful job.  We don't see enough SE USA mountainous/hill country courses profiled!

[Tommy Williamsen]

I do play with "Turboe." We Norwegians have to stick together.  In fact I will be down there after Easter.

We need Turboe back on here, one of the true gentlemen of golf.

I played with Turboe and Mike Whitaker before this year's Dixie Cup. We missed a few holes on the back due to a downpour that felt like a 45 minute waterfall.

If you are looking for a fancy place, it is probably not for you. If you are looking for a casual atmosphere and a good bowl of soup and a beer where the staff will be your friends by the end of the meal, this is a place for you.

Okay with the concept that "GolfClubAtlas.com is presented to promote frank commentary on golf course architecture", I present the following.

The founders of MM wanted to be a Pine Valley of the South type of place. Golf only, penal golf course for serious and good golfers in a great remote property with cabins for overnight play. It has great greens, many in Pinehurst style. As a barely on a good day 8-10 handicap, I can get a little wild off the tee and have a preference for the width of C&C and Raynor off the tee. Somehow Pine Valley (1 play) seems more fun and yes easier off the tee than MM (also 1 play). I thought that the shots into greens on many holes at MM were great. The problem is that misses off the tee and to the green pretty much end up with double or X.

Case in point, is #18 where Tommy mentions that you can sit on the porch on 18 and watch the majority of players hit into the weeds. If that is the case..........

Now the course has been sold and the question is, what next? Cater to the Yankees with no game or to the locals that love the challenge of the current course?

If invited after this post, I would really like to head back and play the course a second time as visually it was very deceptive the first time around. Somehow the penal architecture of Pine Valley works in spades. At MM, it was a little too much for me again on this one day. It will be interesting to see what the new owner does.

Mike, I think the corridors are wider than PV.  After you have been around MM a few times the tee shots are not so scary. They look scary as heck but   you really have to be wild to hit it out of play.  The tough part of the course is the shots into the greens.  Many of the greens tend to be small or have small areas with steep slopes and waste area.  The greens tend to have a lot of movement.  However, the short holes have the most severe greens, like 6 and 11.  Holes like 4 & 8 have less slope and undulation.  You really have to think your way around the course and play the correct tees.  I have some higher handicap friends that have come with me for years.  When I can get them to move up they have a much better time of it.

The interesting thing is that my wife loves the course and it beats her up.  She just loves the strategy in it. 

If you get all wrapped up in score you might have trouble. But if you keep your head it is pretty playable.  I am a 5 handicap and shot 78 my first time around.  Of course it didn't hurt that I jarrred my second shot on number one.

I'd be happy to host any of you if you get down that way.  The great thing about MM is the whole experience.  It is not fancy but the new owner is changing that somewhat.  He is upgrading the interior and food from what I understand.

[Mike Sweeney]

Not a perfect comparison but....





Tommy,

Yes I agree with you about width off the tee at MM. Number 3 visually off the tee was very difficult to get comfortable with and then when you got out on the fairway it was very wide.

Please be clear, I think MM has the potential to move up on the Golfweek Modern list. It has awesome land and awesome greens. But let's tell it like it is, the Golfweek guys are wimpier than you Golf Digest guys.  The question architectually is how to make the course "better" which probably means easier without alienation the core golf membership.

I never played Mountain Lake before the Silva renovation, where the charter seemed to make in more interesting, which meant harder while not alienating the core membership which is the older local members.

[Michael Whitaker]

Tommy, Mike, and Bill - Musgrove is indeed a difficult course! And yes, Bill, drainage has always been a problem for the course as most of it resides in a flood plain. The best time to play Musgrove is in the summer when the course is dry and firm... during any moderate rainy season the property remains damp and soft and it reverts to a "carry the ball from A to B" course.

As Tommy says, the teeshots do not seem so scary after a couple of plays... but, you have to execute, execute, execute to score well at Musgrove on a consistent basis. It is know locally as a "players" course and moderate to high handicappers do not have much fun there.

I'm sure I can speak for Turboe when I say that you guys are welcome back to Musgrove (and the Palmetto state in general) anytime your busy schedules allow. All you have to do is ask!!! But, come when it is warm and the grasses are in season so you can get the full flavor.

The new owner, John McConnell, has a great reputation with the other courses he has bought and we have high hopes that Musgrove will finally get the funds necessary to correct the drainage problems and raise the course to an even higher standard.

Here is a brief article from Raleigh's News & Observer about McConnell:

Golf Magnate Buys Fourth Course
South Carolina links expand network for golfers who like change of scenery
Jonathan B. Cox, Staff Writer

Some golfers get excited buying new clubs. John McConnell gets his kicks collecting courses.

The former software entrepreneur on Friday bought his fourth, the Musgrove Mill Golf Club in Clinton, S.C. McConnell made millions selling two companies -- Medic Computer of Raleigh in 1997 and A4 Health Systems of Cary last year -- and is now trying to turn his favorite hobby into his next success.

McConnell Golf buys courses designed by the sport's masters, including Donald Ross and Tom Fazio. And it offers customers a deal: Pay the initiation fee at one and get access to all. It's a value in the sport, where golfers can pay $20,000 or more to join a course.

"I wish there had been something like this before I joined my first club," McConnell said.

The business started in 2003 when McConnell bought Raleigh Country Club out of bankruptcy. Last year, he bought Treyburn Country Club in Durham and Cardinal Golf & Country Club in Greensboro.

He played 16 holes at Musgrove Mill about five years ago -- a storm cut his time short -- and was struck by its natural beauty. The course sits on 330 acres between Greenville and Columbia. McConnell said he didn't see much more than wild turkeys and deer when he played.

"It's a different golf course," he said. When he got word the club, designed by Arnold Palmer and among the top 10 in South Carolina, needed help, he called.

McConnell declined to say how much he paid for it, but he's getting a reputation for buying courses struggling to attract members.

And he isn't done yet. "We definitely intend to grow the company," he said.



 

[Bill_McBride]

Hmmmm.  Dixie Cup 2009?   

[Mike Sweeney]

Hmmmm.  Dixie Cup 2009?   

Has there been an announcemet on 2008 by The Committee?

If they can get Yale fairly dry, I would think they can get MM dry. It will take money, so maybe over time.

[Bill_McBride]

No announcement yet for 2008.  Something might be coming out in the near future on a "hold these dates" basis.

(Psst, Michael Whitaker and John Cullum, you guys done anything yet?)

[Tommy Williamsen]

The club is very accommodating and an outing could easily be arranged. 
About the difficulty:  My best friend is a 20 handicapper.  He goes to Musgrove twice a year with me.  What he likes about the course is the excitement.  Some of the shots into the green are nothing less than thrilling.  And the shots around the green demand both imagination and touch.  After a week there your short game is a notch better.

[Michael Whitaker]

(Psst, Michael Whitaker and John Cullum, you guys done anything yet?)

Mr. Cullum has something in the works... should be an announcment before too long.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I had an enjoyable round there a couple of years ago with Darryl "Turboe" Boe.  The course is very strong indeed.  The only thing I'd love to see changed is the drainage, as the course sits low in a flood plain and was very wet the day we played.  It was still all the fun you could ask for, with challenging greens and exciting finishing holes for each nine.  The par 3 #7 proved to be too much of a challenge!

I really enjoyed the solitude and the nice facilities - low key clubhouse sitting above the course, and some neat cottages by the excellent practice area.

Drainage has not been the problem as much as flooding.  We have had many "100 year floods."  Every year the super has made some changes that seem to deter the flooding.  The biggest problem areas are 8&9 and 15.  What amazes me is how well the course does drain after a flood and how quickly it repairs itself.

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, there was no standing water but everything was pretty soft and cart paths only, so I thought there might be some ongoing drainage issues.  Maybe we were just that soon after a heavy rain.