Swampland maintenance of tall plants requiring carries

[Jason Connor]

I have a question about carries over marshland where as the course grows in you end up having to carry trees or bushes so tall they interfere with the line of play.

I've wondered this a few times playing low country South Carolina courses. And now my new home course has such a hole.



Here is a long par 3 and sometimes the tees are right at the 208 mark with very little land between the tee markers and where the tall plants start -- even if you go back 2 club lengths. 

The first time I played, I opted not to hit my 2-iron because I thought it might clip the tops of some off these plants and went with a hybrid instead solely for loft.

And the course is relatively new (7 years old, I think) so the plants could get taller.

I was just curious when it came to designing / maintaining such holes how one accounts for this.  I assume it's not easy to trim these trees / brush since they're growing up out of soggy marshland.

[Ryan Farrow]

Jason, I would say that in most cases you are not allowed to "legally" remove trees in any wetland or protected area. But deals can be made to either fill in the wetlands or (i'm reaching here) have a "maintainable area" if you agree to construct a certain amount of additional wetlands in return.  Its all regulated by the Corps.

[Jason Connor]

I may have too liberally used wetlands.

I'm in Florida now, so if you dig a hole it fills with water.  This isn't a swamp that was likely to have been there before the course construction began -- but I don't really know.

I'm not sure if this area is actually "Wetlands" or whether it's just a pond with vegetation tall enough to make me rethink a 2-iron.

[Bob_Huntley]

I agree completely.

Does any one remember the bull-rushes at the 8th at Spanish Bay? They grew and grew like Topsy until the attractive greensite became a blind shot.

Sanity eventually prevailed and they were cut back.

Bob

[Tim Nugent]

You can remove trees from wetland s but I don't see that as the issue (if you're playing the back tees and you can't cut it in, just layup - sorry).  You are asking about the hieght of the marsh plants and how does one take them into acount.  1st, know what could possible grow there and it's mature hieght.  2nd, build the green and tee up high enough to be able to hit over them with the club that the distance dictates and so that the green isn't blind.  The problem 'after the fact' is that sometimes the tees/greens are built post wetland mitigation and they ran out of room for fill slopes.  This is where bulkheading is used.  Usually, if you figure about 6', you're in the ballpark

[Scott Witter]

Jason:

I have had this condition on 3 of my courses.  The conditions existed and in order to get the holes to fit and work well without major permitting issues we had to face forced carries.  For the most part, the challenge is to manage the woody material and it typically only needs to be addressed about every 3 years as young shoots from the trees removed grow fast.  We were able during construction to cut the trees through the line of play as needed, but due to environmental restrictions we couldn't remove the stumps and no major equipment was allowed in the areas.  The trees were hooked with cables and dragged out during winter to minimize disturbance.

The herbaceous material that can in some areas grow as much as 8 feet in a season must be managed by hand as again due to environmental restrictions, the clubs are not allowed to use any chemical treatments.

I guess it can be a pain, but given the site conditions and the land available architects must make the most of what they have.