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Peter Nomm

Re: Difficult tee decisions
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2008, 10:31:46 AM »
I believe that decisions off the tee are a factor that distinguishes very good from most courses being built today.  

.............

Par 5 at Sand Hills where hugging left side gives an extra 75 yards of roll. (also 10 at Augusta).

I would agree with George's initial assesment that most tee-shots tell you where to hit the ball.  I will qualify my comment with my perspective as a scratch golfer and relatively long hitter.  I believe many on this site know enough about Sand Hills (I believe Jason refers to #16?) to recognize the choices available off the tee.  Realistically, the only hole that I can think of that really doesn't have a lot of strategy on the tee shot is #4, yet even that encourages the player to play down the left center (closer to the long grass) in order to shorten the hole.

And to what Tom D said - no doubt I get jazzed about the opportunity to fly it past the bunker.

Again this raises the question about playing the correct set of tees for the player's ability.  If, assumably, the architect designed the hole to tempt the long hitter to carry something and have a better angle, then why shouldn't a shorter try to face the same challenge by moving up a box or two.

A big part of why I love the game is the chance to successfully negotiate these choices, while sometimes failing.  I have really worked to encourage the members at my club to move up and experience the same buzz by trying these shots.  When they do, they inevitably have more fun.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Difficult tee decisions
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2008, 10:33:30 AM »
George:

Thank you for quoting me correctly.

Low-handicap players get all jazzed about "decisions" involving a big carry off the tee, because THEY KNOW THEY CAN MAKE THE CARRY.  It's still a risk, yes, but only if they hit a poor tee shot.  [Most alternate-fairway holes are set up so that the long-carry tee shot gets the easy angle to the green, a design theory which hammers the short hitter over the head.]

Likewise, if you understand the relationship between hole location and best approach angle on a course like Ballyneal, then making the correct decision isn't so hard.

Much better types of decisions are the ones involving a risk you CAN'T carry ... i.e. Rich's description of the 14th at Dornoch, or playing down the left edge of the fifth hole at Sunningdale to get a better angle into the green, knowing you are flirting with the heather and trees on the left.

The 16th at St. Andrews is another great one.  Nobody is confident to play down the fence on the left, but if you drive too far down the left, you also get a bad angle to the best hole locations.  So do you dare play close to the central bunkers?

I don't think you are giving this shot enough credit.  For one, nobody is penalized on a good diagonal hole.  There is a shot all can make available.  Second, even for decent hitters, everything changes when wind the kicks up.  I have been getting to know Burnham quite well this winter.  There are several holes in which the carry or angle changes dramatically because of wind.  Most dismiss the 4th as a nothing hole until the wind is more in your face OR at your back.  Its quite difficult to discern the line in either case.

Perhaps the best diagonal tee shot I can think of is the 2nd at N Berwick.  I think what really makes the hole is not the choice of carry, but the elephant mounds out on the left.  If one is aiming out there, it is best to layup because if you get caught in those humps you virtually have no chance to reach the green.  However, who has the guts to hit less than driver even in a safe direction? 

I do agree that most tee shots can be figured fairly quickly if the player knows the green and where the hole is cut.  I think the trick, as you suggest, is to make that ideal drive placement a bit risky, not so much as to make the player scoff, but enough to tempt him at least once in a while.

Ciao 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 10:36:57 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_F

Re: Difficult tee decisions
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2008, 05:32:22 PM »
Just noticed this Mark.  It was I.  Thanks for the kudos.

Rich

No worries, Rich.  It's always a pleasure to quote from such a fine source.  :)  I apologise for not immediately discerning that it was your prose.  Sean must be trying hard to prove the imitation is the sincerest form of flattery theorem. :)

Most alternate-fairway holes are set up so that the long-carry tee shot gets the easy angle to the green, a design theory which hammers the short hitter over the head.

Tom,

Is this why the 8th at Barnbougle is set up the way that it is?  The short or long hitter can aim for the higher left side but with a slightly worse angle, the person who can hit a bomb down the right has a better angle but has to hit up the hill, which the shorter player couldn't get their 3-wood/hybrid up?

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