[Kyle Harris]

Been thinking about some of the "traditional" things in golf, and as to whether or not their value is worth the cost to maintain them.

My first thought was about tees, specifically tee markers. When I do course setup, I can shave at least an hour off the time it takes me if I don't have to move the tee markers that morning. Time is spent, lifting, moving, replacing and making sure they're not aimed toward any trouble. With 4-5 sets of tees compounded over 18 holes, the time adds up rather quickly. Factor in that sometimes these markers need to be removed and replaced when the tees get mowed and we're talking 10-20 man hours per week spent on tee markers.

Why not just introduce a rule that defines the teeing area as the region within two club lengths of a spot? This eliminates a lot of confusion and potential complications and complaints. If the spot used is one of the tee markers currently sold that can be mowed over, all the setup guy in the morning has to do is move on block to a non-worn area on the tee and move on. No lining up and the tee mowers won't have to move the blocks to cut the tee.

It also eliminates the rather dumb idea that the tee markers need to point to a specific area on the hole. The first question is... FOR WHOM? People of different abilities and different lengths play to different areas. A single spot allows the golfer to take responsibility for his line and not even have the superintendent enter into the thought process.

Any other areas in golf maintenance or architecture that are held unto simply for tradition?

[Adam Clayman]

Kyle, Your heart is in the right spot. However, there is one aspect to your post where I believe you have it slightly inaccurate. The Tee markers do not have to aim away from trouble. Heck, I've even seen tee boxes constructed pointing directly at trouble. That aside, the gist of your post should be an individual owner's decision. But, if you could get the USGA and R&A to re-define the teeing ground you might have something. From the USGA rules website accessed through JVB's Free Drop site
 

The "teeing ground" is the starting place for the hole to be played. It is a rectangular area two club-lengths in depth, the front and the sides of which are defined by the outside limits of two tee-markers. A ball is outside the teeing ground when all of it lies outside the teeing ground.

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:

Another "tradition" that is done of rote is moving the cups on greens everyday.  At a course that's sparsely played, or on fescue greens, cutting a new hole may do more damage than a second day of traffic.

Ken Nice informed me that Bandon Trails has gone to every-other-day changing of hole locations and the other courses at the resort may follow.  Since the guests usually play different courses each day, they are not likely to be disappointed by repeating the same hole locations anyway.

Changing cups on the practice green is equally a problem ... Bandon has used "no cup" putting targets since the beginning and I think that is a great idea for most of the green.

[John Moore II]

Changing cups I can see a a need, especially on courses that get a lot of play. Pelz and his Lumpy Doughnut theory are on target. Another thing that has become tradition, but was not from the start is raking bunkers and having them be perfect all the time. Aren't bunkers supposed to be penal? Maybe if you do not hit bad shots, you won't see the bunkers and won't need to rake and maintain them every day.

[Don_Mahaffey]

For years I have changed cups every other day during slower periods. I cut odds one day, and evens the next, as I still like to be sure and walk the greens each day. If your going to do that one thing I do advise is to be sure and check each cup each day as some golfers have been known to leave them in less than perfect shape. At Wolf Point our plan is to cut every third cup each day, 1,4,7,10,13,16 would be day 1 and on and on. We'll see how the cups hold up, but we do also plan on using hole liners. I've never used those before...and comments pro or con?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

For years I have changed cups every other day during slower periods. I cut odds one day, and evens the next, as I still like to be sure and walk the greens each day. If your going to do that one thing I do advise is to be sure and check each cup each day as some golfers have been known to leave them in less than perfect shape. At Wolf Point our plan is to cut every third cup each day, 1,4,7,10,13,16 would be day 1 and on and on. We'll see how the cups hold up, but we do also plan on using hole liners. I've never used those before...and comments pro or con?

Don,

My comments on hole liners come from a player's standpoint...I dislike them.  A former course of mine used them and on more than one occasion I saw balls influenced by them...keeping a putt out of the hole.  If they are installed properly and the benefit from a conditioning standpoint is there, then I suppose I wouldn't be against them - but if there aren't enough of those positives I wouldn't want them at my course.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle, Your heart is in the right spot. However, there is one aspect to your post where I believe you have it slightly inaccurate. The Tee markers do not have to aim away from trouble. Heck, I've even seen tee boxes constructed pointing directly at trouble. That aside, the gist of your post should be an individual owner's decision. But, if you could get the USGA and R&A to re-define the teeing ground you might have something. From the USGA rules website accessed through JVB's Free Drop site
 

The "teeing ground" is the starting place for the hole to be played. It is a rectangular area two club-lengths in depth, the front and the sides of which are defined by the outside limits of two tee-markers. A ball is outside the teeing ground when all of it lies outside the teeing ground.

Adam,

Most superintendents ensure that effort is made to point the tee markers "correctly." I'd imagine that is a chief day to day complaint with most golfers at clubs.

[JESII]

I'd imagine that is a chief day to day complaint with most golfers at clubs.

Your clubs?

[James Bennett]

For years I have changed cups every other day during slower periods. I cut odds one day, and evens the next, as I still like to be sure and walk the greens each day. If your going to do that one thing I do advise is to be sure and check each cup each day as some golfers have been known to leave them in less than perfect shape. At Wolf Point our plan is to cut every third cup each day, 1,4,7,10,13,16 would be day 1 and on and on.

Don

nice idea.  Have you seen the hole trimmers?  Plunge the unit into the hole then spring-lift, and the internal blade cuts any loose grass edges.  It also removes some 'thatch' when the hole is caving in, which is normally a sign of excess mositure and excess organic content.

James B

[Adam Clayman]

Complaints from Golfers? I'm shocked!
 
My advice, when some weenie comes in complaining about his/her inability to be aware enough to point their own arses in the right direction...Smile and say thank you. As soon as they leave the room breakout into the biggest belly laugh. You will live longer.

[Jim Sweeney]

Don:

According to the rules, Hole liners should be sunk 1" below the level of the green. This includes liner extensions of the tyupe you are planning on using. Thus, if one follows the USGA recommendation, the hole liner extensions are ineffective.

Hole liners can create problems. You may remember when professional golfer Joe Daley failed to earn his tour card when his putt on the final green rebounded off the edge of the hole liner and came to rest outside the hole.

Such incidents are rare, but hole liner extensions exacerbate the problem.

Other than that coming from liner extension manufacturers, there is little evidence that liner extensions have a profound positive effect. I could see some value if the seed bed was so sandy that it crumbled easily, but I've never seen that condition on a golf course.

[James Bennett]

there is little evidence that liner extensions have a profound positive effect. I could see some value if the seed bed was so sandy that it crumbled easily, but I've never seen that condition on a golf course.

Jim

my club uses them in the middle of winter if the greens have been subjected to constant rain and the hole edges otherwise might be falling in (it happens moreso when thatch levels are excessive). 

We also use them at times when the greens have just been cored.  That works well, and reduces damage around the hole from collapsing coreholes.

James B

[Kirk Gill]

Any other areas in golf maintenance or architecture that are held unto simply for tradition?

Sand bunkers?

[JESII]

I can't believe nobody has challenged the potential 20 hour ccommittment to tee markers each week...how much do those babies weigh?


I'd agree that the first place to convince a membership to save money would be bunkers maintenance...

as to changing holes everyday...I think I might change them every Friday, Saturday and Sunday and maybe leave them from Sunday to Wednesday and then Wednesday to Friday...four changes per week.

[Garland Bayley]

Adam,

Most superintendents ensure that effort is made to point the tee markers "correctly." I'd imagine that is a chief day to day complaint with most golfers at clubs.

I played with a guy at Rustic that took it upon himself to reallign the tee markers towards the target. Apparently, someone at Rustic doesn't think they need to be alligned towards the target.

[Tom Yost]

I find it humorous, golfers who complain about tee boxes or tee markers that did not "point" the right direction.  This is one of the things that just never bothered me.   On the other hand, I'm not fond when the tee markers are set out too close together or on an unlevel part of the tee.

I always figured that the daily movement of the tee markers was more related to spreading out the wear on the turf rather than just a "tradition."

Tom

[Kyle Harris]

I find it humorous, golfers who complain about tee boxes or tee markers that did not "point" the right direction.  This is one of the things that just never bothered me.   On the other hand, I'm not fond when the tee markers are set out too close together or on an unlevel part of the tee.

I always figured that the daily movement of the tee markers was more related to spreading out the wear on the turf rather than just a "tradition."

Tom

It's not the daily movement that is the tradition, but the fact that there needs to be two markers to indicate "the box."

Sully,

The blocks at Huntingdon Valley are light. The holes also aren't changed every day, especially after rain. They are checked every day, though.

The granite blocks at my current place are around 5 pounds each.

We're also not only talking pointing correctly, but being the correct width, appearing in order and a number of other things. The point is, there's an easier and less time consuming way to get the same job done.

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