End of the line for St Andrews Beach

[Jed Peters]

Edit: Nevermind.....

[Andrew Summerell]

That’s a refreshing attitude & one that should be more common amongst the top architects of the world, although I’m sure it leaves you out of pocket from time to time.

Even if St Andrew’s Beach never reopens, I’m glad to have had the opportunity to play it, as it was an excellent course. It is better that it was built, even if it fails, than for it never to be built.

[Chris Kane]

It is better that it was built, even if it fails, than for it never to be built.

Those who supported the project financially, only to lose their money, would probably disagree with you.

[Mark_F]

Mark, forgive my ignorance, but will the course stay open, just under different owners? Or will it get ploughed up? Or do you not know at this point?

Philip,

The most likely scenario is that it will stay open as a golf course with different owners. There are at least two groups dead keen on developing the project further. We had all hoped it would have been settled by now, as it is coming into some glorious, albeit typically changeable Spring weather, and I believe it will take some time for the course to get back to its previous self.

Or perhaps the same owners.  I understand that the former dickheads in charge have put together a proposal to take the development back out of administration, and the administrator has a duty to give them 60 days or so to do this.

When are you coming North to see us and refresh your  memories of golf in the UK?

Philip, you have no idea how much I am chomping at the bit to get back to the UK, and watch you bludgeon a ball again   I hope to get back by this time next year. 

It is better that it was built, even if it fails, than for it never to be built.

Those who supported the project financially, only to lose their money, would probably disagree with you.

Yes, we would.

[Andrew Summerell]

It is better that it was built, even if it fails, than for it never to be built.

Those who supported the project financially, only to lose their money, would probably disagree with you.

Yes, I do understand that & I would be extremely angry if that happened to me, but so many poor golf courses are built with little (or no) consideration given to the course as long as it returns a good income.

[Shane Gurnett]

Investing in St AB ($50k upfront, no more to pay  ) was always a high risk play for a potentially fantastic return if it all went according to plan. Sadly, for whatever reason it hasn't worked out that way. It's a shame because the course was of a very high standard and in my view the best of the bunch down that way.

Mark, what expectation do you (and presumably all the other "members") have for your playing rights in the future? Is there any hope of playing gofl there again as a member without kicking in another bunch of cash?

Shane.

[Mark_F]

Mark, what expectation do you (and presumably all the other "members") have for your playing rights in the future? Is there any hope of playing gofl there again as a member without kicking in another bunch of cash?
Shane.

Shane,

I don't think we will have to kick in any more money in the form of purchasing another share or entry fees, but there will be subs involved when someone purchases the place.

However, if the impasse between what the secured creditors want for the development, and what the prospective purchasers have offered, continues, I have wondered whether the members may chip in to make up the difference, in return for equity.

[Shane Gurnett]

But Mark, after having tipped $50k of your hard earned down the drain already, why put your hand in your pocket for another $10-20k or whatever it takes just to go through potentially the whole pain and misery again? You'd be better off spending the coin at the National where you already have 3 courses and the added bonus of a clubhouse thrown in for free. Surely only a fool would make the same mistake twice over.

That is of course assuming that the new owners would want to have anything to do with the old members anyway.

[Mark_F]

But Mark, after having tipped $50k of your hard earned down the drain already, why put your hand in your pocket for another $10-20k or whatever it takes just to go through potentially the whole pain and misery again?

I have to put my hand in my pocket for another club anyway - obviously you would have a close look at whomever the new oweners were, what you were offered in return, and what their plans where.

You'd be better off spending the coin at the National where you already have 3 courses and the added bonus of a clubhouse thrown in for free.

Nothing could lead me to joining The National.  Once Matt Mollica leaves, I can easily see the land being sold for ordnance practice due to the sudden departure of members who won't have anyone decent to play with.

And The National's clubhouse isn't much of a bonus, especially as it looks out over The Ocean Course.

That is of course assuming that the new owners would want to have anything to do with the old members anyway

Why wouldn't they? Do you think they will be able to find another 500 people in Melbourne to pay the bills?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I have just started reading this thread...how sad it all seems.
I have only seen the array of marvelous pictures of the course, and uit certainly is on my "to play' list...I only hope it is still there to play.

Mark..is The National in trouble as well?
sorry if that appears an ignorant question....

[Matthew Mollica]

The National is not in trouble at all Michael.

Through the last few years, it has maintained a financial membership of approx 2000, and has also been able to move from a position of 7mil debt (borrowings for design and construction of a new clubhouse, and 2 new courses) to a position where it is now in surplus.

The issue for some (Mark and others) is that Tom's course at St Andrews Beach may be viewed as superior to anything The National may provide.  One course at The National is disappointing, despite being conditioned beautifully. The other two courses are very good, and could provide years of challenging and enjoyable golf.

MM

[Chris Kane]

That is of course assuming that the new owners would want to have anything to do with the old members anyway.

Shane, the 500 people (Mark's figure) who were got sucked in the first time round would be a snake-oil salesman's wet dream!

[Mark_F]

Mark..is The National in trouble as well?

Michael,

The National is in trouble only insofar as the the cost of petrol has risen so dramtically here the last couple of years, the members struggle to afford a decent red with their foie gras these days.

In actuality, it is a very professional club with a very good member culture.  Given that a couple of dunderheads who ran St Andrews Beach were long-time members there, I struggle to understand how they got it so wrong.

[Shane Gurnett]

In actuality, it is a very professional club with a very good member culture.  Given that a couple of dunderheads who ran St Andrews Beach were long-time members there, I struggle to understand how they got it so wrong.

They could have built the clubhouse first perhaps?

Why not join Long Island. They have no joining fee at the moment, just pay as you go membership. Its a decent course with some good holes and always in good condition.

[Mark_F]

In actuality, it is a very professional club with a very good member culture.  Given that a couple of dunderheads who ran St Andrews Beach were long-time members there, I struggle to understand how they got it so wrong.

They could have built the clubhouse first perhaps?

So you are saying that enormous chicken shed at The National makes their culture?  I would have said it was far more, and far less important things.

Why not join Long Island. They have no joining fee at the moment, just pay as you go membership. Its a decent course with some good holes and always in good condition.

I would rather join Woodlands and keep Justin on his toes.
And is Long Island your first choice if Commonwealth disappeared?

[Chris Kane]

And is Long Island your first choice if Commonwealth disappeared?

Mark, that's hardly a fair question.  Shane has never had to consider where he'd join if Commonwealth disappeared - as it won't disappear.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, you appear to have lost not just your money but your mind as well!  Commonwealth isnt going anywhere old sport.

And who says Woodlands would have you anyway? They have enough trouble makers there already..

[Matthew Mollica]

If you were to leave Commonwealth however Shane, (hypothetically speaking of course), where would you like to go and play? I think that's what Mark's asking really...

MM

[Shane Gurnett]

The rumour mill is awash wish suggestions that a sale has taken place, and that the course will be back in play soon. Anyone have anymore details?

[Tom_Doak]

I have not heard anything, officially or unofficially, regarding a sale of the course.

I did hear from a young fellow who climbed the fence to walk the course a couple of months ago.  He said the fairways and greens were still in excellent shape ... the bunkers and roughs very rough.  So if they do open it, it shouldn't take too much work to get it back up to a decent standard.

[Chris Kane]

Tom, I spoke to the co-designer of the course at Portsea yesterday; almost the first thing he said to me was "I walked St Andrews Beach this morning, they could play the Australian Open there tomorrow if they wanted to!"

[Mike_Clayton]

I did walk the course yesterday and the course looks fantastic.The bunkers have not been maintained and so look brilliant  -  windblown and rugged and real hazards.I would leave them alone pretty much when the course reopens.

There is no one around and the front gate is locked but its easy to jump the fence by the maintenance shed. It is a wonder there are not people jumping the fence and playing.The two guys cutting the fairways did not look too bothered about us walking around.

It's amazing how well two guys can maintain a course.

[Neil_Crafter]

It's amazing how well two guys can maintain a course.

Mike, yes, especially when there are no pesky golfers!

[Ash Towe]

Fingers crossed that the course can be reopened soon.  I have only walked the place but it is at the top of my must plays in Australia.

[Mark_F]

So if they do open it, it shouldn't take too much work to get it back up to a decent standard.

Probably about a week's worth to get it back up to the standard you last saw it in.

"...they could play the Australian Open there tomorrow if they wanted to!"

But would anyone drive that far to watch it?

The rumour mill is awash wish suggestions that a sale has taken place, and that the course will be back in play soon. Anyone have anymore details?

Lloyd Williams has bought it.  Capital is getting too much traffic, so another two more courses should ease the load significantly.

Fingal 9 and 10 will be re-routed to make rook for a helipad.