[Trey Kemp]

Here is the link to the Dallas Morning News Texas Golf Edition for 2008.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/golf/texasgolf2008/vitindex.html

Enjoy!

By the way are there any other newspapers across the country that do anything similar?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Thanks for posting this Trey.  The two biggest surprises for me are seeing Austin Golf Club at #21 and Briggs Ranch at #30.  Golfweek has Briggs as the #38 modern course in the country and I would be shocked if I found Austin Golf to be only one place above the Jackrabbit Course at Champions.

[Mark Bourgeois]

I recall threads on this in the past. The takeaways were:
1. Other newspapers have lists but unlike those this one is taken seriously.
2. It's a Texas thing and we wouldn't understand.

How did Jeffrey D do this time around?

Mark

[Jeff_Brauer]

As usual, JDB is not terribly happy with these rankings.   Every course I had dropped somewhat on the list, and I do less well in the DMN rankings than I do in other places to start with.

[ChipRoyce]

Outside of the Top 30, this list seems to be very subjective and tilted to the big name courses.

For instance, no mention of Twin Creeks, top 5 best new private in 2006.

[mike_beene]

Jeff is on the panel at least. Several others here are or have been in the past.

[John Kavanaugh]

The only course I have played on the list is #13...Craigs Ranch.  Texas must not have much to offer because that course is not better than either course on the Robert Trent Jones Trail in Auburn. (Links and Lake)  btw...I played Craigs Ranch for free and paid at RTJ.

Could someone please compare how Champions at #10 relates to its position on the Golfweek list?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

The only course I have played on the list is #13...Craigs Ranch.  Texas must not have much to offer because that course is not better than either course on the Robert Trent Jones Trail in Auburn. (Links and Lake)  btw...I played Craigs Ranch for free and paid at RTJ.

Could someone please compare how Champions at #10 relates to its position on the Golfweek list?

There are 3 Golfweek "classic" courses in the top 10 of the TX list.

4. Colonial (Golfweek #48)
6. Brook Hollow (Golfweek #90)
9. Champions Cypress Creek (Golfweek #91)

[John Kavanaugh]

We all know that Champions is not a classic course.  Can you compare the Goifweek list in totale with the Texas list?  Just estimate please.

[David Stamm]

Good to see Midland CC there. My brother in law is a member there and loves it. It's a neat club with a solid Ralph Plummer course. The Nationwide players would rave about when they would come to town.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

We all know that Champions is not a classic course.  Can you compare the Goifweek list in totale with the Texas list?  Just estimate please.

It looks like the two lists on Golfweek have the following courses included:

Colonial
Brook Hollow
Champions
Dallas National
Briggs Ranch
Crown Colony
Vaquero Club

With the exception of Briggs being placed so low on the TX list and #1 Whispering Pines omission from the Golfweek list I think they mesh.

[John Kavanaugh]

What is the back story on Whispering Pines? 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Is it really possible no one considers Rockport CC one of the 100-best courses in Texas?  Really?

[Jeff Spittel]

No Beaumont CC, Westwood or Brae Burn CC? Hmmmmm. I'd rather play those courses than the dog tracks I hack up every weekend.

[Jeff Spittel]

What is the back story on Whispering Pines? 

John,

Whispering Pines is philanthropic endeavor. They have a number of membership categories that are on a per year basis. Basically, you are allocated a certain number of rounds each year commensurate with the size of the charitable donation made.   

[K. Krahenbuhl]

No Beaumont CC, Westwood or Brae Burn CC? Hmmmmm. I'd rather play those courses than the dog tracks I hack up every weekend.

Westwood is at #80 on the next 50 list.  Keith Foster did some great work with the bunkers out there and I think the par 5 sixth is one of the better holes in the area.

[John Kavanaugh]

What is the back story on Whispering Pines? 

John,

Whispering Pines is philanthropic endeavor. They have a number of membership categories that are on a per year basis. Basically, you are allocated a certain number of rounds each year commensurate with the size of the charitable donation made.   

Thanks...That clears it up.

[Jeff Spittel]

Westwood is at #80 on the next 50 list.  Keith Foster did soem great work with the bunkers out there and I think the par 5 sixth is one of the better holes in the area.
[/quote]

Oh, I guess I passed right over him, Kyle. I'd agree that the bunkering and (relatively) rolling layout are very enjoyable. The only problem I found was you've gotta wear your kevlar on the drive to the club.   

[Gary_Mahanay]

With all dew respect for Mr. Brauer (I can guarantee you he is one of if not the most knowledgable of the panelist) this list that the Dallas Morning News puts together is not even close to being as scientific as a Golfweek list.  It provides some fun reading but not really taken very serious unless your course is ranked up near the top and then your ranking position will be put on all of your advertising material like this is the gospel.

Heck, they still have McKinney C.C. listed as the #11 nine-hole course in the state and it has been shut down for 2 years now.

[John Kavanaugh]

I love the Dallas Morning News list...I got a free round out of the deal.  Please explain how this list is less scientific than Golfweek?  At least they are not a trade publication with more concern over placement than readership.  I was amused to find a free copy in my room at Bandon and recently was asked to subcribe to Golfweek for 77 cents a copy with a half dozen ball signing bonus.  Now that is a joke.

[Bill_McBride]

Every year I go spend a few days with friends at Barton Creek.  I enjoy playing the Crenshaw Cliffside course there much more than the two Fazio courses and the Palmer course that's 15 miles away.  All three of those are rated way above the Crenshaw course that has huge greens that sprawl naturally across the slopes, several falling away front to back.  The Fazio courses are very manufactured and the Palmer course is nothing special at all.

Dear Abby, is it just me?

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill,

Is there a problem with rating courses higher that you enjoy more that those that may be better designed?

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Is there a problem with rating courses higher that you enjoy more that those that may be better designed?

Well obviously in my opinion - in my opinion - the Cliffside course is better design than the others.  But I didn't get a vote, so I'm just stating my opinion.

[Gary_Mahanay]

John,

Jeff B. will know more about this but the DMN says, "Panel members rated courses on a 1-10 scale.  To be eligible for the top 100, a course needed to be rated by 25 percent of the panel members who participated.  For this year's rankings, 87 panel members participated, so a course needed 22 votes to be eligible."

Now if the DMN panel members took into account (1. Routing 2.Quality of shaping 3. Overall land plan 4. Greens and surrounds 5. Variety and memorability of par 3s 6. Variety and memorability of par 4s 7. Variety and memorability of par 5s 8. Tree and landscape management 9. Conditioning 10. "Walk in the park" test )  then my non-scientific observation could be wrong.   And it sounds like if your course didn't have at least 22 panel members show up you didn't get rated.

[John Kavanaugh]

The course I played, Craig's Ranch is rated 13th.  I would have given it a 6.0 on the Golfweek scale so that is about right where it should be.

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