The Short hole at Old Macdonald:

[PThomas]

i'm another who sincerely appreciates this kind of thread and the posts by those involved in the course...thanks to all

[Kalen Braley]

Its been said by many others, but I also very much appreciate the thread with the photos, insight, comments, and discussion.  I certainly hope there are many more threads like this to come.

My question would be, has the big boss approved this hole yet, as with the other courses, or does the team have this approval?  What are his comments in terms of maintaince for this hole?  Looks like quite the mowing job will be required.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Is this thread "The Making of Old Macdonald" or "The Marketing of Old Macdonald"?

Good post John K...

No wonder many Architects that I know cannot be bothered to post on this site.  I have hundreds of photos and paintings of our work but am always scared of getting ripped or accused of advertising and that statement just proves it...

Brian,
I'd love to see some of your work. I hope you'll post some pictures soon.

Brian, why not do what a lot of us do -- ignore the ridiculous and/or insulting posts and just focus on the material that's important? There are going to be cranks and boors posting on any Web, but if you shun them and hone in on the valuable stuff there's a chance that civility can prevail and folks can actually learn something.

Brad,
I hope you'll come visit Wolf Point...and I hope your not cranky when you do

[Brad Klein]

Only if you come to understand that this is not (in your words from above) "a copy cat course."

[Don_Mahaffey]

Brad,
I know it's not a copy cat, but you are using old ideas with some new twists…right?
Sort of like covering a great old rock and roll album but adding some new rifs and vocals? That’s a serious question, not a poke at you.

I wish you and all you partners well and I was very sincere when I wrote that I have no doubt the course will be fun to play. But, can we agree that I don’t have to agree it is the best use of the site? Not like it really means anything, but I’d rather see a new, original Doak than an interpretation of someone else’s work.

[Chip Gaskins]

but I’d rather see a new, original Doak than an interpretation of someone else’s work.

we all seem to like NGLA which was for the most part MacDonald's interpretations of others people's work.

[George Pazin]

The other thing to remember is that the vast majority of Macdonald/Raynor courses are private ones that many or most will never see.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

wow I am so loving watching the evolution of this course. Thanks George.

[Mike Sweeney]

Brad,
I know it's not a copy cat, but you are using old ideas with some new twists…right?
Sort of like covering a great old rock and roll album but adding some new rifs and vocals? That’s a serious question, not a poke at you.

I wish you and all you partners well and I was very sincere when I wrote that I have no doubt the course will be fun to play. But, can we agree that I don’t have to agree it is the best use of the site? Not like it really means anything, but I’d rather see a new, original Doak than an interpretation of someone else’s work.

Don,

I compare Old MacDonald to Bethpage Black. BB would have never have worked as a stand alone course. It was/is too hard for the regular guy golfer. Surrounded by 4 other courses ranging from good to very good, it can be an awesome course that is NOT meant for the everyday public golfer.

I have never been to Bandon. If Old Mac was the first course at Bandon, it would have seemed like some ecentric guy that wanted to create his own West Coast NGLA. Who knows, NGLA may not have worked if Shinnecock was not next door. Sitting next to three proven winners, it seems like the perfect place to experiment and show the public golfer how interesting and different design can be. I have no doubt many golfers will find it strange, and that will probably make it more popular at GCA.com!

There is a side of me that would have liked to see another "up and comer" architect on the project, but that does not outweigh my interest.

Living in New York, Shannon is easier to get to than Bandon, but Old Mac may be the reason for me to finally go to Bandon over Ireland.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brad, Brian, Ian, et al: please stop putting words in my mouth I did not write!

My point was the lack of critical comment in the *thread* -- I would have expected a green that size to have generated more critical discussion than Kyle's point about how long it would take to mow.

As to your own conclusions (as well as your manners) regarding what my post "proves," have any of you seen "The Ox-Bow Incident"?

Maybe you could watch it while I'm away searching for the world's greatest egg salad recipe....

Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

You've been drinking too much of the water in Lake Wales.

Forget what you want from Doak and others, it's not important.

What Mike Kaiser wants ..... IS IMPORTANT.

And, he wants a tribute to CBM.

I intend to return to Bandon as soon as Old Mac is open.

Mike Kaiser's vision has been brilliant.

Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Old MacDonald

Four diverse golf courses that will attract and retain "Golfers".

If you like Mountain Lake, I'll guarantee you that you'll like OM.

Why don't we make Bandon our summer trip in 2009 ?

[Garland Bayley]

...
My point was the lack of critical comment in the *thread* -- I would have expected a green that size to have generated more critical discussion than Kyle's point about how long it would take to mow.
...

I was thinking that if you put a "tee" beside it, you could have the par 2 that Forrest has wanted to build.
 

[Reef Wilson]

Sort of like covering a great old rock and roll album but adding some new rifs and vocals? That’s a serious question, not a poke at you.

I think this is a cool way of looking at it. I have been trying to think of a good song to use as an analogy and came up with Joe Cocker's version of "with a little help from my friends." Same words, but a drastically different interpretation and certainly some people are going to hate it and some people are going to love it when they didn't really care for the original or were not contemporaries of the original.

Anyway, as a newbie here, I am loving this thread. I must admit that my attempts to make sense of the construction to my left as I played 14 and 15 at PD a few weeks ago contributed to the collapse of a great round I had going. Definitely a lesson learned in focusing on the task at hand!

[Patrick Hodgdon]

Mike Sweeney,

You've been drinking too much of the water in Lake Wales.

Forget what you want from Doak and others, it's not important.

What Mike Kaiser wants ..... IS IMPORTANT.

And, he wants a tribute to CBM.

I intend to return to Bandon as soon as Old Mac is open.

Mike Kaiser's vision has been brilliant.

Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Old MacDonald

Four diverse golf courses that will attract and retain "Golfers".

If you like Mountain Lake, I'll guarantee you that you'll like OM.

Why don't we make Bandon our summer trip in 2009 ?

I'll second that.

[John Kirk]

Don't believe the course will open until spring 2010.

I am a big fan of this project.  You gotta believe the boys are having fun building this one.

[paul cowley]

.....something tells me that this new course won't remotely resemble a copycat anything....but instead it will become the new standard that all the other CB MacRaynor courses are measured by....and I'm quite confident with that statement.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul Cowley,

Would you translate your confidence into a wager with very favorable odds for the takers ? 

I don't believe that OM will be the standard by which NGLA, Yale, The Creek, Piping Rock and others will be measured, but, I'm clearly biased.

[Mark Hissey]

Mark: that was the "World Famous" Tony Russell on the excavator!

He sure is. The tap-dancing shaper. I look forward to sinking a few beers with Jim and Tony in two weeks at Bandon.

I've heard a disturbing rumour though. Do they not have Guinness in the pub any more?

[Ian Andrew]

Mark,

I would have IM'd this but your not available for messages. I took the comment as critical, but judging by what you have said since - I guess I took it wrong. Sorry.

Why no criticism?

1. It's a little early to criticize
2. It's dangerous to do such without seeing the hole in person
3. It will some kind of guts to call out this Group - on this site
4. Generally people like the ideas that are being presented

[paul cowley]

Paul Cowley,

Would you translate your confidence into a wager with very favorable odds for the takers ? 

I don't believe that OM will be the standard by which NGLA, Yale, The Creek, Piping Rock and others will be measured, but, I'm clearly biased.



Patrick Mucci,

How about the loser re imburses the other for their round, whether they are played together or not?

....and I've enough confidence in you to suggest that you be the sole judge of this competition.

[JMorgan]

Paul Cowley,

Would you translate your confidence into a wager with very favorable odds for the takers ? 

I don't believe that OM will be the standard by which NGLA, Yale, The Creek, Piping Rock and others will be measured, but, I'm clearly biased.

Patrick Mucci,

How about the loser re imburses the other for their round, whether they are played together or not?

....and I've enough confidence in you to suggest that you be the sole judge of this competition.

Paul, I'd wager it'll be seen purely as a Tom Doak course once the press junkets leave town and the dust settles. -JM   

[Steve Kline]

I think that most people that play there will have no idea who CB Macdonald, Seth Raynor, etc. were. Most probably won't have seen any of the original holes in England and Scotland. And, most won't have any idea the holes/design were inspired by other holes. Now, they might start to get it when they play the course and there is stuff at the resort and on the web site to tell you this. So, to most people this will be a Doak original. For example, while virutally everyone here knows what a Biarritz green is - how many people going to Bandon have heard or if or know what it is?

[David Druzisky]

Okay, I will try a "Back on topic" post.
All those involved -
I asked back on an earlier page, what is the tee set-up, configuration, design looking like it is going to be?  Do you see providing various angles into this monster? Or will that not work based on the surface contours? The yardage differnce on a daily basis can be significant based on the green size alone, but how much variance in yardage at the tees do you imagine providing. My first impression is that you are creating many different shot values at the green but do you continue that with tee variety?

DbD

[Eric Olsen]

When I looked the picture again this morning, given the size and scope of the green and bunker, my mind flashed to Mike Strantz and the scale of Royal New Kent....

I am very excited to see it in a few weeks when I am at Bandon...

[hhuffines]

What's the over/under on pin locations on that fantastic green?

What is the best definition of shot value?

Lastly, as a resort guest and "retail golfer," are we allowed to just
walk out and see Old Mac for ourselves?

Thanks!