What courses designed or attributed Wayne Stiles are you prepared to discuss?

[Michael Moore]

You want cross bunkers, you got 'em.

http://www.taconicgolf.com/CourseMasterPlan/index.htm

The Hanse master plan is a delight to read - very plain in that Elements of Style way, and very thorough.

[John Kavanaugh]

Michael and Mike,

I figured you guys had already seen the below from the first Stiles thread and ordered your books.  Here is a discription and a link on where to purchase.  The BBGE has already agreed to donate a round for 3 people with me at Norwood for the upcoming auction.  I only offered to send Mr. Fay a copy out of respect for his work at Donald Ross.

From the Stiles thread now on page 2.

I just found out a book has been produced about Wayne Stiles. I think the authors are known to some on this site, Bob Labbance and Kevin Mendik. Through the generosity of co-author Kevin Mendik all proceeds from the sale of the book go to a college fund for the children of co-author Bob Labbance who has been diagnosed with ALS.
Available at: http://www.waynestilessociety.com/book

[Mike Sweeney]

You want cross bunkers, you got 'em.

http://www.taconicgolf.com/CourseMasterPlan/index.htm

The Hanse master plan is a delight to read - very plain in that Elements of Style way, and very thorough.

Time for Mike Keiser to step to the plate and fund that plan!

Edit - Oops, Mike K went to Amherst.

[Willie_Dow]

Being a graduate from Vermont Academy, and visiting there for my 60th reunion, we played Hooper Golf Club in Walpole, New Hampshire, just across the river from Bellows Falls, Vt.

It is a wonderful nine holer, and beautifully described in "The Life and Work of Wayne Stiles" pg 189-191. 

My chat with family chaperons of the course indicated a strong desire to keep everything as is, including the "warts" created when the blasting was needed to get the rocks out of the fairways.

[TEPaul]

All I know of Stiles is that in 1947 he recommended to my club (Ross 1916) that all Ross' top-shot bunkers on the course be removed and that the club did that as per his recommendation.

He also recommended that a bunker be placed right greenside on our #6 which has water all along the front and all along the left side. Stiles' rationale for recommending that right greenside bunker was that it would somewhat balance out penalty on the right side with the highly penal left side (due to the water).

I've always felt that is probably just about the opposite from what Ross apparently intended on that hole. I also feel that recommendation is basically just about the opposite of good risk/reward strategic balance---eg highly penal left side and bailout safe area on the right (as Ross designed the hole).

Not to mention the fact that the Stiles bunker on that hole does not drain at all well because the water level in its area is very close to the bunker base. Ross apparently understood that too when he built the hole with no bunkers and just some mounds on the right removed from the green.

But other than a bunch of seeming mistakes like that maybe Wayne Stiles was a helluva architect. 

[Willie_Dow]

Tom - I always liked that bunker to the right side of #6.  Was it not an elevated bunker at one time, well above green level, making for a difficult down slope bunker shot to a falling away green ?

[TEPaul]

"Was it not an elevated bunker at one time, well above green level, making for a difficult down slope bunker shot to a falling away green ?"

Bill:

As long as I've been there it hasn't been elevated although it probably should be seeing as how high the water table is around it. That green has a lot of contour in it particularly in the back half but I wouldn't say it's a fall away shot from that bunker. Of course one does have to worry about hitting a bunker shot too far as the pond is behind any shot from that bunker.

Ross designed that hole with a small flat spot in the position of that Stiles' bunker and before the mounds apparently as something of a bail-out right safety option against dealing with the pond on the left. I sort of recall that the bunker was going to be removed in the restoration but I think we just forgot to do it. 

[Willie_Dow]

Stiles had a lot of "quirky" bunkering at Hooper Golf Club, some were raised as I described regarding #6 at Gulph Mills.  His design work at Gulph Mills, in 1940, was his last known - he prepared a 9-page report - and I guess that is what you are referring to, eh Tom ??

It was interesting to read that Stiles was chosen over Ross and Flynn in 1932 to design Putterham Meadows Golf Club, next to The Country Club, for the town of Brookline, MA.

[John Foley]

Got the book over the weekend and loved it. Suprised about the number of courses and geographic disparity of his work.

How about Prout's Neck??

I know that it's been touched upon here in the past, but from what I remember the dunes holes we're very good.

Based upon all the glowing responses from Taconic, it looks like a definite must play this summer. I may have been there years ago, pre-GCA fanatacisn, but definetly want to get back.

[Willie_Dow]

M J Fay - At dinner last night I showed the Wahconah article to John Kittridge, Board Chairman at Crane Paper Co., and he was very impressed with the article.
He did mention that although Frederick G. Crane, Jr. donated the land for the 9 holes Stiles laid out, he was not the "head" of the Crane Paper Co. at that time.

[Willie_Dow]

The more I read into this great work by Labbance & Kevin Mendik I cannot leave it on page two.

[Craig Sweet]

I've played Taconic and Rutland....more than 25 years ago!  I did not know he did Brattleboro as well.....I've played there too while in high school...

Taconic is fantastic....but most everyone already knows that. 

[Michael Powers]

Stiles courses played
Pinebrook
Thorny Lea
Oak Hill
Putterham (Brookline Golf Club)
Duxbury
Larry Gannon (formerly Happy Valley)
Marshfield
Marlborough
Taconic
Woodland

All of the above mentioned courses are fun to play, usually on the shorter side.  Putterham and Duxbury tend to have some drainage issues.  Just looking at the list, the one characteristic that seems to prevail is Stiles par 4 holes having an elevated tee, a fairway below, followed by an uphill approach.  This is true with most of the holes at Pinebrook, Marshfield, Marlborough, and Thorny Lea.  Taconic is without a doubt in a league by itself with Stiles.  The sleeper is Oak Hill.  Although the back 9 (Ross) is a better test than the front, #1, #7, and #9 are excellent holes attributed to Stiles.  I included Woodland as originally designed by Stiles, then subsequentially redesigned by Ross in the '20's, then redesigned again by Cornish in the '60's.  Does anyone have any info as to the extent of Rosses redesign?  This course is down the street from me, and although most people accept it as Ross, the green complexed and feel of the place just doesn't seem so Ross to me.

[Ken Fry]

Growing up in Western Mass, I got the opportunity to play the local Stiles courses:

Cranwell
Waconah
Pontoosuc (site of my first ever round of golf and many to follow)
CC of Pittsfield

The major omission?  Obviously Taconic.  My Dad was not a big golfer and couldn't justify paying the fees for access to the course.  Hindsight can be painful...

What a wonderful book Labbance and Mendik put together!

Ken

[Paul Richards]

 

[Tom Bagley]

Oak Hill in Fitchburg, MA has a front nine designed by Stiles and a back nine by Ross.  However, the difficulty for the club (I am a member and the unofficial historian) is in determining how much of Stiles' work is left.  Ross had a hand in re-designing some of the first nine and the club is trying hard to find more visual evidence through early photos in order to more accurately date some of the changes.  Several holes on the front side have been changed at various times by Ross, Orrin Smith, Geoff Cornish, Brian Silva and Renaissance Golf. 

By the way, the plan that is the frontispiece of the Stiles' book was found (abandoned) on the floor of closet in an old house formerly owned by one of the founders of the club.  Oak Hill had no knowledge that this plan existed until a few months ago when I was contacted by the family that found the plan.  Fortunately, we were able to get the plan to Bob Labbance in time for it to be included in his book.

[Chris_Blakely]

I have played the following Stiles and Van Kleek courses:

Prouts Neck CC (Stiles solo I believe)
Rutland CC
Taconic GC
Mink Meadows GC (Stiles solo I believe)
Wawenock CC
Cranwell Resort
Brigantine GL
South Shore CC (Hamburg, NY)
Pelham Bay Park - Pelham Course (Van Kleek solo)
Pelham Bay Park - Split Rock Course (Van Kleek solo)

[michael j fay]

Chris,

Give us your take on Prouts Neck. This has to be the most difficult course in Maine to see. If you stay at the local Blackberry Inn you may have some acces, otherwise it is a very private shop.

[Michael Powers]

Bob,
Thank you for the information as I have not yet read the Stiles book.  Your story reminds me of another.  About 7 or 8 years ago the Ross house behind the ladies 15th tee at Essex was purchased and pretty much gutted (although the frame of the original house remains).  The owner was a member and he told one of the pros that while tearing down the walls and floor in what was once Ross' study, they came upon a bunch of drawings and plans, some of Essex, and others.  My buddy got all excited and told him he would drive a cart right over to pick up the items.......But they were already discarded in the dumpster and it at been emptied.

[Chris_Blakely]

Chris,

Give us your take on Prouts Neck. This has to be the most difficult course in Maine to see. If you stay at the local Blackberry Inn you may have some acces, otherwise it is a very private shop.

Michael,

Yes, my brother and I played the course three years ago.  I would post some of the photos I took (I took a bunch), but Michael Moore has aluded in previous posts that they are quite private about their course.  You would not even know it was there if you drove by (There is a little walk from the Inn to the course).  Prouts Neck is right across the street from the Blackberry Inn.  If you are an Inn guest, you get one round of golf as part of your package at several local area courses.  PN is the obvious choice.  My brother and I spent 20 minutes talking to the head pro about course design, Waynes Stiles, etc.  We had no trouble getting on, we were the first off in the morning and played at a leisurely pace walking.

Thre first three holes play along the dunes.  I still have a photo I took of the first hole as my computer's wallpaper at home.  There was fog off the bay when we teed off which was a lot of fun to play through and resulted in some unique photos.  The course returns to the ocean in the interior for three or four holes.  The course is very wooded / sandy in the interior.  The greens are heavily bunkered and quite undulating.  Both my brother and I really enjoyed the course and the ocean setting is spectacular.  The course is a little ragged in spots and we enjoyed it that way.

We played the course after playing Rutland and PN's green are not as built up / engineered as Rutland's.  I do not know the reason, maybee Stiles felt it did not work with the flatter terrain and the proximety of the ocean.  I know that renovations were done by Cornish, I believe this was just bunker touchups / resto.

I remember a great routing that was very walkable, 6 or 7 holes on the ocean, and some unique greens.  The use of the dunes on holes 1 & 2 and several green site in the interior was perfect.  I still remember coming 11th green which looks out onto the ocean with sailboats anchored in the harbor.

I will review my photos and try to add some more about the course later.

Chris

[Mike Sweeney]

http://www.blackpointinn.com/inn/