Ridgewood (AWT) in paramus nj

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

The issue with tree removal can be a difficult one for any club. I salute RCC for getting rid of a number of trees but if the trimming / removal were done on the left side of 8W I think the overall nature of the hole would certainly improve.

The tee shot options would be a good bit more challenging -- those who are successful would likely be in fine shape to realistically go for the green in two blows.

Although all the photos look grand -- there's still some work to be done on that front.

[Greg Stebbins]

Please note that Bill's picture is taken from a spot that is about 20 yards right of where the tee originally was.  The cape aspect is mild at best from the new tee, but the old tee presented a much sharper angle.

[Bill Brightly]

Greg,

If the trees were gone, would you play the hole more aggessively?

If yes, if the OB stakes stayed, would that change your answer?

[Matt_Ward]

The changing of the angle on 8W does make a difference but the overall nature of being able to "swing a tee shot around the existing forest" is still nearly impossible.

What's interesting is that people may agree to remove the "easy" trees that have grown and grown. The real movement to progress is in educating members about the original intent of the design / hole in question.

Leaving the OB is fine as a tactical consideration but "opening" up the possibilities of hole to play as a legitmate cape-hole would be a significant improvement and a restoration of the design brilliance Tillie demonstrated.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

What you and others are forgetting is that for years the left rough was allowed to extend out, far beyond the drip line, penalizing the golfer who hit a low hook/draw in an attempt to get to the ideal location for his second shot.

The fall/winter pictures don't portray how invasive the trees on the left are as they reach out for the summer sun.

[Matt_Ward]

Pat Mucci:

You don't have to convince me -- it's like preaching to the choir.

I simply opined that 8W would be a far better hole if its original intent were followed.

[Kyle Harris]

Bump for Tim Taylor.

[Mike Policano]

Matt Ward,

I finally got a chance to walk 8 west this weekend and to look at Gil Hanse's master plan.

I also spoke with someone who has a large overhead of the course taken for the 1935 Ryder Cup, 6 years after the course opened.

Couple of observations:

1.  The forest to the left was there in 1935.

2.  5 of the biggest oaks on the disappeared last spring.

3.  The fairway has been expanded per Hanse's specs.

4.  Per Hanse tree limbs were trimmed on the left.

5.  The biggest difference is that the fairway is narrower than now. It may have gone very close to the tree line.

6.  Per Hanse a new back tee further right opens up the fairway.

I look forward to your comments.

Cheers

4.  The big difference from the overhead

[Matt_Ward]

Hey Mike:

Thanks for the comments / details.

The issue concerning the trees on the left was how dense were they when the course first opened?

I'm happy to hear about the tree limbs that have been cut back. Still, I'd like to see the hole play as a gambling tee shot for those who dare. The way it's set-up now that isn't likely going to be the case.

No doubt the new tee box you mentioned provides a different playing angle and that does help matters a bit.

Candidly, if the left tree side were knocked down a good bit more than what's there now would likely mean a real interesting decision to be made at the tee. Right now -- the hole is an obligatory three-shot hole with pitch shot generally played from the 100+ yard range in nearly all instances.

I don't doubt the hole is a good one -- it's just not as great as other Tillie par-5 holes that I have played -- e.g. BB's 4th, BCC's 14th, etc, etc.