Torrey Pines #13

[Jim Johnson]

Listening to Faldo talk about Torrey Pine's 13th on Sunday afternoon got me wondering what y'all think of the USGA's decision to stretch out the hole to 600+ yards.

If you didn't hear him, he was discussing what will transpire with the USGA putting in a longer tee, some 600 or so yards, back to the left of the current tips. It would bring the chasm more into play, and players would be hitting on a diagonal straight at the fairway bunkers on the right. What was interesting was hearing Faldo comment that he thought it would make it a more boring hole, that guys would lay up to the bottom of the dip before the green, instead of going for the green in two, like players were doing this past weekend.

Below is a drawing of the hole, via the website of Torrey Pines.


A couple of guys mentioned it [briefly] on another thread.

Any thoughts on this?

JJ

[RJ_Daley]

Its been a few years since I played there, but I thought they were out of room behind the far back tees now, and that the land fell down the cliff from there.  Will they have to build up  a very high teeing area from the slope going down?  Isn't that soil wise, a bit whacked, given the sloughing off and landslides that the area experiences?  

I agree, it might make a snooze fest of the hole, 3W off tee, lay up to bottom, flip up to green, semi blind to blind to the pin.  That makes the purdy newish bunkers leading up the slope to the green a big useless, Blah...

[David Schofield]

The new tee was pointed out on the aerial images of #13 on Sunday (and perhaps other days).  

Incidentally, it seemed to me that the radio tower and trees to the right of the new tee would make a draw difficult, though perhaps they plan on removing one or both of those "impediments".

[David Ober]

Hopefully, they'll play the back tees on only 1 or 2 of the four days. Mix up the hole a bit.

[Pete Lavallee]

The back tee is already built; I hit one from there and couldn't make the carry, it's at least 250 yards. It is about 50 yards to the left of the original tee  and a few yards further back; it does make the hole more interesting as it is now a Cape style drive. Down wind and downhill there will be many players who can reach in two; I would predict less than driver 3 wood for Tiger. The hole is well designed for layups with only a small flat spot just past the 90 yard mark; there is also another flat spot around 160 but the green is completely blind from there. Frankly driver 5 iron par 5's are more boring to me.

[CJ Carder]

I'm a bit conflicted about the change.  I wholeheartedly agree with Pete that driver+5-iron par 5's are boring.  Still, for the majority of the field, it'll be a 3-wood, 5-iron, wedge, which is also kind of boring, but maybe not quite as bad given that the wedge will require a little more control given that it's a severely uphill shot and most of the green is blind from down there.  The other thing that scares me about having the tees so far back is that there's basically no runup area - thus if you're going for the green from 280+, it's all carry to get it on the green.

I think it'd be a fantastic idea to mix up the tee boxes and have a little variety.  Still, given that the greens are typically rock hard for an Open anyway, maybe moving it back to almost 600 yards (590'ish) and making them hit 3 and 4 irons in wouldn't be too terrible.

[Kirk Gill]

For the pro who keeps his drive in the fairway, the new tee may very well result in a 3-wood, five-iron, wedge hole, but the diagonal nature of the drive makes the drive more difficult. The bomb and gouge player may encounter "US Open roughİ", resulting in a hack back to the fairway, and a long, testing third shot. I agree that interest would be added if they didn't use the same tees every day of the tourney.

One thing to like about the change - the new tee doesn't "disfigure" the course. Just adds a bit of a walk back there for those who feel the need to play from there.......

[Kalen Braley]

Pete,

From the camera angle, it looked like that radio tower was very much in the way of the tee shot from that new back tee?  Especially in the case of hitting a draw. Is this really the case or was it just a misleading angle that was shown from the blimp?

Thanks,

Kalen

[peter_mcknight]

The radio tower isn't in play with the new back tee on Torrey Pines 13.  Actually, there are two teeing grounds by the radio tower. One of them is 614; the other is probably 595.

The new tee will play 614 yards for the Open in June.  The other par 5s are 9 at 612 and 18 at 573.

It is approximately 245-250 yards to clear the barranca on the tee shot.  The new variable is hitting the tee shot and keeping one's ball in the fairway.  With F/F conditions, the fairway will play like 14-18 yards in width, meaning the right rough probably will get significant play, which could complicate the 2d shot.  An overcooked draw from the tee will land in some of the heaviest of the rough at TP.  Like I reported in July 2007, the heaviest rough I found was on 12 10 9 and the left side of 13 in that order.

I would guess the 614 tee will be used at least 3 days because of the USGA's decision to retain 18 as a par 5 and their stated desire to move that tee all 4 rounds.

If they played it from 540, the stroke average would be around 4.75 for the week.  Playing it at 614 will increase that to 5.10 or more.

[Tom Yost]

In the interview with Rees, and the discussion of the new tee on #13, Faldo said he wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of having to play his third shot from down in the swale back up to a blind green.

I was thinking - isn't that how the rest of us normal schlubs have to play the hole??

[JohnH]

In the interview with Rees, and the discussion of the new tee on #13, Faldo said he wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of having to play his third shot from down in the swale back up to a blind green.

I was thinking - isn't that how the rest of us normal schlubs have to play the hole??

This is interesting.  With the way today's players are from 100 yards and in, I wouldn't think it poses much of a problem.  I always felt the easiest shots to a hole location were with the shortest irons.  Then again, I'm far from tour capable.

[Pete Lavallee]

Kalen,

The new tee is to the left of the radio tower.

[Matt_Cohn]

John,

The depth of the swale is hard to describe. The shot goes at least 40 or 50 feet uphill. It's really tough to judge. You just never hit shots that severely uphill.

I still remember when I was much younger, hitting what I thought was a great 9-iron, only to watch it hit the *top* of a pine tree over the back of the green.

It's not as easy as it seems from down there. Boring, maybe, but not easy!

[CJ Carder]

I didn't get a good shot of the hole when I was there in April 2007, but this will at least add some visual aid to the discussion.