[George Pazin]

Many posters on here, and many pundits worldwide, have commented that even top ams can't relate to the pro game anymore (talking golf here).

What specifically can't you - or other ams, top notch or lousy - relate to? The long drives? The towering irons? The ability to hold a rock hard lightning fast green with sizzling spin?

Or is simply the ability to put together a low score under tournament conditions and pressures?

(Or can you relate? My hunch is that most folks on here mean other people, not themselves, when they say they can't relate to the pro game. )

[JESII]

The ease with which these guys go into a bunker and flip it out to tap in distance...what seems like every single time...on the short easy ones or the 35 yard ones that must carry most of the way...

[cary lichtenstein]

The height they hit and the softness on landing.

[wsmorrison]

Let me take it one step further and address what everyone can't relate to, including touring pros, and that is Tiger's ability to score when he isn't in half the fairways.  His ability to recover and make birdies, let alone pars, is amazing!  

Tiger's consistent putting is also fabulous (and has a lot to do with my previous point), at least when the greens are not overly fast as at Oakmont.  That was the only time I saw him fail to dial in the greens.

[Glenn Spencer]

Long Drives? some, I can't. I don't think that they are as long as seem to be on televison because of conditions.

Towering Irons? Can't relate

Holding Greens? can somewhat relate.

Putting together a low score? I will always maintain that it is easier to get in a zone in a tournament than it is anywhere else.

Bunkers? I think I have to agree with this one the most, I have no idea how they do it.

Short Game? This is where I am lost the most, 1000 times a year, I will say, "That guy is making bogey from there" and he gets it up and down.

Wedge Shots? No comprehension.

[Kalen Braley]

Hmmm, lets see other than:

1)  The massive length off the tee
2)  Hitting thier irons a mile high and long
3)  Getting up and down from just about anywhere
4)  Rolling thier rock in from just about any distance/ lag putting from 80 feet!
5)  Playing in front of thousands of spectators and millions on TV and not choking!
6)  For those not named John Daly avoiding the dreaded blow up hole!
7)  Free gear

Other than that, I can relate!!  

[Jason Topp]

Shooting under par on a 7500 yard course with a 20 mph wind, greens running at 12, pins tucked, fairways 25 yards wide and rough high.

I've played many of the famous tournament courses from regular tees and regular pin positions.  I shoot about what I do on my course.(6500 yd/72.3 rating/139 slope)

I've played a few times in competition on tough 7000 yard courses with a 20 mph wind, greens fast, pins tucked and normal rough and shoot about 10 shots higher than I do on my course.  Hitting a gren is a miracle, because it is usually from 200 yards out, even with my best tee shot.  On those courses, even if I hit a good drive and then hit it on the middle of the green, I'm still left with a fast 30 footer over difficult slope that slopes away because the pin is 3 paces from the edge.  I then 3 putt as often as not.

[Phil Benedict]

The amount of spin they put on their wedges.  They fly the ball past the hole all the time and spin in back, something I never do.

They say it's because of clubhead speed but I'm not sure.

Is it because they sharpen the grooves on their wedges?

[Greg Krueger]

The 2 biggest things are length and short game, includes putting. I am a decent player (2.5) that can hit it 250-300, but to AVERAGE 290 like those guys, CAN'T RELATE.

Short game is the other area. Tour players are so incredibly better than even the best ams., CAN'T RELATE.

[tlavin]

I "get" the length.  I "get" the spin on the ball.  I just don't get the unbelievable skill out of greenside bunkers.  And I simply don't get how good they are on long putts.  The putting simply blows me away.  It sounds funny even reading it, but I'm more awed by the smaller shots.

[George Pazin]

It sounds funny even reading it, but I'm more awed by the smaller shots.

Doesn't sound funny to me, it sounds perceptive!

[Scott Coan]

I'm not awed by their length.  What amazes me about the pro's that I have played with is their distance control on their irons and their impeccable short games.

Their iron shots are almost always the perfect distance and when they miss to a side the good ones always miss on the long side, leaving a relatively easy up-and-down.

A good mate of mine practices quite frequently with a guy that has just made his card on the PGA Tour and he relates this story.  He targets a tee in the ground for chipping practice from about 10 meters.  He just does not aim to get near the tee.  He routinely hits the thing time after time after time!!!

It is hard to relate to the pro's putting ability because they conduct it on perfect surfaces (generally).

[George Pazin]

The 2 biggest things are length and short game, includes putting. I am a decent player (2.5) that can hit it 250-300, but to AVERAGE 290 like those guys, CAN'T RELATE.

I'm surprised at this comment. I guess what you're really saying is that you can't relate to their consistency.

[tlavin]

It sounds funny even reading it, but I'm more awed by the smaller shots.

Doesn't sound funny to me, it sounds perceptive!

Always admired your native intelligence, George!

[Greg Krueger]

George, that would be correct. Like I wrote, I can hit it a reasonable distance but to consistantly average 290, I can't relate.

[JohnH]

This is easy for me. Having been to many professional events, I'm always in awe of the accuracy of the pro's from both the tee and fairway.  They make it look so effortless.

[Matt Waterbury]

For me, it is simply the consistency of distance control, with every club:
     - Consistently knowing driver vs. 3 wood vs. iron off the tee
     - Consistenly knowing how to hit exactly 142 yards with 5 different clubs
     - Consistently knowing how far a ball is going to fly and how far it is going to roll on short shots (including bunker shots)
     - Consistently knowing how far a putt is going to roll to be a tap in at worst

The game is all about distance - but not about who has the most.

Cheers,
mjw

[Jim_Kennedy]

George,
Their drive, and I don't mean far or straight.  

[JSlonis]

Short game, short game, short game.

From 100 yards in, these guys are so good it's scary.  As Sully has mentioned, the consistency of their bunker play really stands out.  On any routine bunker shot, it seems like an automatic up and down.  

[Phil Benedict]

Two of the better golfers on this site mention bunker play, which is an area where I think tour pros have a huge advantage because they practice so much.  I practice my short game but hardly ever practice bunker play based solely on a crude cost/benefit analysis.  Maybe 1 in 5 of my greenside shots is from a bunker, so it makes more sense for me to spend most of my scarce practice time on chipping and putting.

Pros practice everything.  Jamie and JESII:  How much time do you spend practicing sand shots versus other short game areas?

[Ed Oden]

I agree on the bunker play of the pros.  I simply can not relate to the precision they display.  Last year in a Masters practice round I watched Justin Rose place a tee in the back right portion of the #2 green and then go to the front left bunker.  This must be at least a 35 yard shot.  He would hit to the back center of the green, his ball would touch the fringe, almost stop, then catch the ridge and slowly trickle about 30 feet to the right toward where he had placed the tee.  Of the 10 or so shots he hit, 2 actually HIT the tee, several others were within kick in range and none were more than 5 feet away.  A ridiculous shot that he could routinely pull off with ease.

Ed

[JSlonis]

Phil,

I put in a decent amount of time practicing the short game, including bunker play.  I would think it is in proportion to what it should be for me time wise.  Obviously, it isn't even close to the time that a normal tour professional would practice.  They have the luxury to spend countless hours, it's their livelyhood.

Another factor to consider is on tour, is the consistency of the bunkers and the way they are maintained.  This no doubt helps.  They are very good to begin with and great conditioning only adds to their skill.

One final aspect that I forgot to mention previously is the tour pro's access to equipment.  Particularly with the wegdes, there is so much that can be done with the sole of a wedge, with different bounce angles and different grinds, that a player can really pinpoint just what works best for him and how he wants a wedge to perform.  I love trying out different wedges and tweaking them.  It's amazing how different each one reacts in getting through the sand or how it gets through the grass.  This is an area that is often overlooked by regular golfers and even better amateurs.  A properly fit wedge can save many strokes throughout a round or a tournament.

[Lou_Duran]

George,

Back in college at Ohio State, I used to play in some small-money games that included non-travelling team members of the golf team (when Coach Brown wasn't around).  The biggest difference between these guys and me was their consistency throughout their bag.  I hit the shots they did, though not nearly as frequently and with much greater variance.

I also played some golf with a guy who was the top rated junior in Texas one year, a winner on the Hogan tour, and a gualifier through the second stage of the Tour school (missed the final cut in the third stage).  From tee to green, it was a marvel how far and straight he hit the ball, and with a simple, seemingly effortless motion.  On the few occasions when he hit into a bunker, getting back into scoring position was nearly always a given.  A typical par 72 course with four par fives played closer to par 68.  Wedge on in, chipping, and putting were parts of his game which I could identify with, and his achilles heel at the level he aspired to.  I think he sells insurance today.

I've also played with another guy who has been off and on the Tour for a few years.  He hits it long, straight, move it right or left, high, low.  His misses are superior to my best two or three shots in a round.  He has great touch on and around the greens.  How he is not in contention every week is hard for me to understand, and yet he is having a hard time keeping his status!  The slogan "those guys are good" is an understatement.    
 

[George Pazin]

One final aspect that I forgot to mention previously is the tour pro's access to equipment.  Particularly with the wegdes, there is so much that can be done with the sole of a wedge, with different bounce angles and different grinds, that a player can really pinpoint just what works best for him and how he wants a wedge to perform.  I love trying out different wedges and tweaking them.  It's amazing how different each one reacts in getting through the sand or how it gets through the grass.  This is an area that is often overlooked by regular golfers and even better amateurs.  A properly fit wedge can save many strokes throughout a round or a tournament.

And this is why I can't relate to Jamie's game....

[George Pazin]

It strikes me that, simply by identifying the differences, most people CAN in fact relate.

Something to think about overnight - see you guys tomorrow.

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