Despite the field changing the most has the game changed the least?

[Phil Benedict]

Huck,

I deserve an award for deconstructing John's first post.

I just don't know how to prove or disprove John's hypothesis.  My guess is that average height/weight has gone up on the PGA Tour in the last 20 years, and clearly more players are engaged in fitness and strength training, but that doesn't prove anything.  Certainly average height/weight has gone up much more in basketball and football.  Average height/weight has gone up in the general population too.  

The geometry of basketball and to a lesser extent football favors tall people.  I don't think that's true of golf; the only player over 6'5" to win a major is George Archer.

John:  If your theory were right, wouldn't you have expected at some point in the old days some tall guy would have been dominant?

[Tom Huckaby]

Glenn:

I just do see it differently.  I hope you are right.  But I think I am.  Just remember I am talking about how it will go from here, not how it's worked in the past.  So of course I have few examples.  But let's talk again in 5-10 years.  BTW, I sure as hell define "silver spooner" differently than you seem to.  

shivas:  I sure don't see most players being locals in the tournaments I've read about.  And I really do think Sully and I are right.  You are certainly correct that lots of foreign players make it over here to play these days, but of course that only makes it HARDER for US players to make it to the top... you have to do even MORE to get noticed... and I really do think these national rankings and results in national tournaments are more the coin of the realm than they ever have been.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

JK,

Would basketball be a better game if the court boundaries were expanded and the basket was raised a couple of feet?  How about baseball?  Add 10% to all the dimensions?  Would golf do better to require a single tournament ball and a highly specific, relatively uniform set of club standards?
         

If a basketball court looked like a soccer field the players would follow.  If golf went a tournament ball and highly specific club standards then we would see even more of a test tube golfer.

Huck,

The only thing I would thank you for is giving me a work diversion and making me look smart by lobbing your simpleton softballs.  I would have never started this thread if I had known it would primarily be a treatise on how to teach your kids to strive for mediocrity.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I deserve an award for deconstructing John's first post.

You certainly do.  Logic and grammar are not his strong suits.  Provocation and interesting arguments are, though.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

JK,

Would basketball be a better game if the court boundaries were expanded and the basket was raised a couple of feet?  How about baseball?  Add 10% to all the dimensions?  Would golf do better to require a single tournament ball and a highly specific, relatively uniform set of club standards?
         

If a basketball court looked like a soccer field the players would follow.  If golf went a tournament ball and highly specific club standards then we would see even more of a test tube golfer.

Huck,

The only thing I would thank you for is giving me a work diversion and making me look smart by lobbing your simpleton softballs.  I would have never started this thread if I had known it would primarily be a treatise on how to teach your kids to strive for mediocrity.

That got audible yuks.

 

But again, you're welcome... for giving your thread the attention you so desparately crave... and for keeping up your delusions of looking smart.

I do aim to serve.

[Glenn Spencer]

My understanding is that the US Junior and AJGA events are about all that matters to a Division 1 college coach...

That's my understanding as well - that's ALL they look at.

Times have changed in this respect.

TH

That's a crock.  Half their players come from overseas.  Most of the rest enter and play well in their reasonably LOCAL junior tour events (maybe a few hours' travel, almost exclusively summer events).  Very few are in the full-blown circus full time.

You guys just read about tournaments during the winter because they're held in warm weather climates.  So all the players are locals, but it gives the illusion of some national freakshow.  

Without rufflling any feathers, aren't these new "tours" and new tournaments filling a need for the kids that can't cut it at the big events?

College coaches will always look at the Westerns, the Junior, Junior World, the Amateur and the Public Links. Also, state ams and the AJGA. How could they possibly keep up with the rest of the tournaments? High School didn't mean much when I played, does it now?

[JESII]

Shivas,

In your world, how would this work for expert testimony...the Maryland Golf Coach told my business partner (whose son plays in alot of these things) that Division I coaches look at AJGA and US Junior events almost exclusively...

[John Kavanaugh]

John:  If your theory were right, wouldn't you have expected at some point in the old days some tall guy would have been dominant?

This may explain why Francis Ouimet changed the game as we know it.

[JESII]

John:  If your theory were right, wouldn't you have expected at some point in the old days some tall guy would have been dominant?

This may explain why Francis Ouimet changed the game as we know it.

Could be...

This guy is genius...

JK,

If basketball courts were the size of soccer fields you would have almost zero 7 footers play...especially if the rim were raised a couple of feet. You would have a team full of Allen Iversons running like wild...

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck,

I deserve an award for deconstructing John's first post.

You certainly do.  Logic and grammar are not his strong suits.  Provocation and interesting arguments are, though.

 

I will continue to take my grammar to another level and not settle for standards set by some dead English...

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I deserve an award for deconstructing John's first post.

You certainly do.  Logic and grammar are not his strong suits.  Provocation and interesting arguments are, though.

 

I will continue to take my grammar to another level and not settle for standards set by some dead English...

I have to say you are cracking me up today, JK.

I await the publishing of "Kavanaugh's Guide to Grammar."

 

[Glenn Spencer]

John:  If your theory were right, wouldn't you have expected at some point in the old days some tall guy would have been dominant?

This may explain why Francis Ouimet changed the game as we know it.

Could be...

This guy is genius...

JK,

If basketball courts were the size of soccer fields you would have almost zero 7 footers play...especially if the rim were raised a couple of feet. You would have a team full of Allen Iversons running like wild...

That sounds phenomenal!!! Run and Gun is a lot more fun to watch. Long live UNLV and Loyola Marymount!!!

[Kalen Braley]

I have an idea...

Instead of all this wild speculation, surely one of us knows a Div I coach or thru a friend of friend...perhaps we should get there input..

Oh wait, I forgot this is GCA...never mind!!  

Edit:  looks like my post crossed with Jes's...so there you go all, its settled.  The post is done.  Tom and Jes win, the rest of you lose!  

[JESII]

Shivas/Kalen

In your world, how would this work for expert testimony...the Maryland Golf Coach told my business partner (whose son plays in alot of these things) that Division I coaches look at AJGA and US Junior events almost exclusively...

[John Kavanaugh]

Here is a link to every player on tour and their schools.  Take a peak and decide if you believe the AJGA tournaments had anything to do with their college choice.  http://www.pgatour.com/r/players/

[Kalen Braley]

Jes,

I just added an edit to my post...our posts crossed in cyberspace...

[JESII]

I'll take it...

[Tom Huckaby]

Here is a link to every player on tour and their schools.  Take a peak and decide if you believe the AJGA tournaments had anything to do with their college choice.  http://www.pgatour.com/r/players/

How can one tell?
And remember, at least my argument is based more on how it will go from here than how things have gone for those now currently on tour.

So we need to talk again in 5-10 years.  

[JESII]

Here is a link to every player on tour and their schools.  Take a peak and decide if you believe the AJGA tournaments had anything to do with their college choice.  http://www.pgatour.com/r/players/

I only went a few letters deep John, but it sure looks like th evast majority went to a major conference Division 1 school. Beyond that, what do you think we can learn from that list?

[Phil Benedict]

John,

Basketball always favored tall people but what has changed is how unbelievably skilled certain tall people have become.  And rules changes have been made to contain the advantages the tallest players have.  The lane was widened and the offensive goal-tending rule was added to counter Wilt Chamberlain.

PGA tour courses have been lengthened by at most 10% to account for technology.  I don't think making a basketball court 10% bigger and making the basket 11 feet would affect the composition of the NBA very much, although it would probably make it a more interesting game.

[Glenn Spencer]

Shivas/Kalen

In your world, how would this work for expert testimony...the Maryland Golf Coach told my business partner (whose son plays in alot of these things) that Division I coaches look at AJGA and US Junior events almost exclusively...

Judging by Maryland's record in the NCAA golf world, it might be time to look other places. One tournament and the AJGA, I find that hard to believe. The Junior is a COMPLETE crapshoot as to who qualifies. I don't see how a coach could want a kid for a finish in a short field AJGA event against a performance in the Western Junior or State Amateur.

[Kalen Braley]

John,

Basketball always favored tall people but what has changed is how unbelievably skilled certain tall people have become.  And rules changes have been made to contain the advantages the tallest players have.  The lane was widened and the offensive goal-tending rule was added to counter Wilt Chamberlain.

PGA tour courses have been lengthened by at most 10% to account for technology.  I don't think making a basketball court 10% bigger and making the basket 11 feet would affect the composition of the NBA very much, although it would probably make it a more interesting game.

With the all-star game coming up they could add two new ripples to the saturday festivities to phase out the boring 3 point and dunk contest.

1st )  Have the top guys play Horse.  Who wouldn't love to see these guy try some incredible shots to baffle thier competitors.

2nd)  Have a dunk contest high jump style.  Set the rim to 10 feet, do a dunk.  Set to 10.5, make a dunk.  Keep raising the rim and watch em fall off like flies. In the end whoever does the highest dunk is the winner.  I'd put the over under at 14 feet.

[Glenn Spencer]

Fall 2007: Played as an individual at the Navy Fall Classic... Posted rounds of 78-80--158 to tie for 64th individually at the Naval Academy Course in his collegiate debut.

Before Maryland: Had lowest scoring average during the 2007 season at St. Xavier, one of the best ever at the school... Posted a top-10 finish at the AJGA Memorial event... Shot a 68 to post the second-lowest round in the Ohio Amateur in 2006... Finished 42nd in that event... Tied for medalist honors at the section championship as a senior with a 74 at the Miami Whitewater course... St. Xavier HS team won the Greater Catholic League title in 2004, 2005 and 2006... Placed 4th in the Ohio Junior Amateur (75-71--146)... Had three top-20 finishes in Future College World Tour events.

Personal: Has a sister, Sarah... Hopes to major in business... Favorite athlete is John Daly... Most memorable golf moment was winning the Cincinnati city junior championship in 2005... Says his short game is his best asset.


Sure seems like they are looking at other things. A profile of a current Terp.

[Glenn Spencer]

John,

Basketball always favored tall people but what has changed is how unbelievably skilled certain tall people have become.  And rules changes have been made to contain the advantages the tallest players have.  The lane was widened and the offensive goal-tending rule was added to counter Wilt Chamberlain.

PGA tour courses have been lengthened by at most 10% to account for technology.  I don't think making a basketball court 10% bigger and making the basket 11 feet would affect the composition of the NBA very much, although it would probably make it a more interesting game.

With the all-star game coming up they could add two new ripples to the saturday festivities to phase out the boring 3 point and dunk contest.

1st )  Have the top guys play Horse.  Who wouldn't love to see these guy try some incredible shots to baffle thier competitors.

2nd)  Have a dunk contest high jump style.  Set the rim to 10 feet, do a dunk.  Set to 10.5, make a dunk.  Keep raising the rim and see and watch em fall off like flies. In the end whoever does the highest dunk is the winner.  I'd put the over under at 14 feet.

Both are fabulous ideas.

[Lou_Duran]

Shivas,

Far be it for me to argue with a bona fide former Division I golfer, but to add to what JESS II posted, we had a similar experience with the golf coach at the University of Texas.  He would not even talk to my son about trying out for the team.  According to one of his assistants (who eventually answered one of my son's many calls), the coach had eight players on scholarship.  All were selected on the basis of AJGA, USGA, and other national tournament experience.  The golf program did not seek walk-ons, and designed the qualification competition accordingly:  a 72-hole four day process beginning at noon on the first four days of school on four munis to be named just prior to the first round.  Shoot par from the tips and you're in.  The fact of the matter is that probably only one or two of the scholarship players may have qualified under this process.  But what really stunk with this system is that the golf program was basically requiring its serious potential student-athletes to miss classes at a most critical time in their college careers.

Given the options, my son chose wisely and passed on the opportunity.  The coach didn't have to mess with another evaluation of talent to better the team.  Apparently, there must be some method to the madness- using the national junior tournament process almost exclusively as a feeder system-  as both the coach and the school's golf program appear to be doing okay.  We'll never know how my son't life and college experience may have been enriched had he been afforded the opportunity to compete for a spot on a more objective basis, but, on the other hand, we never had any delusions that college athletics was about the student athlete as opposed to the college and the staffs of the athletic department.