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Paul_Turner

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New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« on: January 30, 2008, 08:54:34 PM »
One of GCA's favourites.

Not sure if pics of this green have been posted before,  but here they are from the club's website.  Anyone played it?

From the pics...the new green looks only ok and the whole complex looks a bit blah and not nearly as good as the one it replaced (hopefully Braid's green was left untouched in the fairway).  Plus the walk back to the 17th tee looks substantial (100 yds?).  Was it really worth changing this green to add 80 yards to 6400 yd course?  





« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 11:06:50 PM by Paul_Turner »
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John Mayhugh

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 09:54:51 PM »
Any photos of the old green?
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Paul_Turner

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 10:28:00 PM »
John

I don't have a pic but it was a neat green that canted from left to right.  It was bunkerless and roughly located on that crinkled brownish coloured grass...now in the fairway (photo looking back to down the hole).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 11:14:14 PM by Paul_Turner »
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Mike_Cirba

Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2008, 10:35:49 PM »
It looks...hmmm...

...unworthy of its setting?  

...uninspiring?

...ok...I guess?
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Brian Phillips

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2008, 11:32:58 PM »
Paul,

Who did the work?

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Ben Stephens

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 04:30:44 AM »
Brian,

Peter McEvoy did the design work alongside David Weller.

website - www.wellermcevoy.co.uk.

There have been a number of changes at St Enodoc since I last played in 2004. The 11th bunkers were renovated, 12th had a couple of new fairway bunkers, 13th and 14th have been modifed, 6th was lengthened so that the Himalayas come more in play - in theory.

To me this new green does not blend in with the other Braid greens. McEvoy's work is similar to Dave Thomas, who has a tendency to build dull flattish greens which are popular with most UK golfers. I believe the likes of Doak, Hawtree or Hanse would have made a far much better green and it would have blended in more naturally with this stunning setting.
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Paul_Turner

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 07:07:57 AM »
Those revetted bunkers look ugly, boring and functional.  Just like all the other ones added to Trevose, Saunton....

Someone has to have a pic of St Enodoc's old 16th.  I'll post it you email to me.

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Ed Tilley

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 07:18:25 AM »


This is a pretty grainy picture but you can see the bumpiness of the old green. You can also see the 17th tee just to the right of the green as you look.

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Paul_Turner

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 07:43:12 AM »
Ed

Great thanks.  Old green much better.
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JohnH

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 07:49:54 AM »
Quote from: Paul_Turner on January 31, 2008, 07:07:57 AM
Those revetted bunkers look ugly, boring and functional.  Just like all the other ones added to Trevose, Saunton....

Someone has to have a pic of St Enodoc's old 16th.  I'll post it you email to me.



Paul,

Could you expand as to why you feel this way?
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jeffwarne

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2008, 08:16:30 AM »
Having seen pictures of the new 16th green PRIOR to my fall trip to St. Enodoc, I was expecting a flattish, mildly contoured green. The new 16th is anything but, in fact it is one of the more undulating greens there-there are plenty of less contoured greens at St. Enodoc.
Also, after a solid drive down the middle(I was semistanding on my head in a depression on the downslope at the marker post)the hole was still completely reachable, so at 80 yards shorter I wouldn't have had more than a short iron in to the old green.
The pictures definitely don't do the hole justice, and the walk to the tee was no big deal-certainly not the worst green to tee walk at St. Enodoc, as there are 3-4 that are far worse.
The bunkers look fine from the ground.
That said and looking at the old green, it would've been nice to have simply added the length and kept the same bunkerless scheme intact, using the natural contour of the ground as hazards. (it did look like a much more natural cool green site before)

I definitely prefer the look of the old 11th, wasn't crazy about the new bunkers on the 12th on the outside of the dogleg (where the penalty is a worse angle in).
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
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Paul_Turner

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2008, 09:29:11 AM »
The only walk at St Enodoc of comparable (but still considerably less) distance is from 15 to 16, across the 9th, but you're walking forwards and not back down the hole you just played.

John

I was looking the pics of new 11th bunkers on the web link.  The bunker is almost perfectly circular and has harsh abrupt edges.   I find it aesthetically ugly and typical of how all links bunkers are constructed now.

Do all links courses now have to build revetted bunkers with steep stacked walls? What happened to the great sod wall bunkers of the past?  Or the sand faced bunkers, which Trevose had for many years?

Is County Down the only hold out?



« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 09:36:07 AM by Paul_Turner »
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JMorgan

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc New
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2008, 09:34:08 AM »
do not like
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 06:27:29 AM by JMorgan »
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2008, 12:08:43 PM »
Ilike the old 16th because eagle and double were both easy to attain and it made a good start to three great finshing holes.  I like the succession of a five, three, four finish.  The last two holes are particulary strong.  I can understand why they would want to make the hole longer, I just don't think it was necessary.
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jeffwarne

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2008, 06:18:56 PM »
Paul,
Are you forgetting the walk from #6 green to #7 tee?
or 8 green to 9 tee?
Honestly the walk on 16 green was hardly noticeable-particularly when you're leaving the trolley and carrying 2-3 clubs.

Shame they couldn't find room for a tee further back on 16 (where that spectacular piece of property and home are.)
the original greensite was nice
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Mosely

Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2008, 06:37:53 PM »
I'm only judging by the pix, but I like the rumples of the old green and the more natural way it appears to blend with the surrounds.

That old pic reminds me of the 8th green at Ballyneal.  I wonder if Tom Doak has reproduced any features, greens or holes from St. Enodoc?  I know he lists it as one of his 31 flavors...
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Kyle Harris

Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2008, 06:43:42 PM »
I'm thinking the new turf is allowing the picture to tell dirty, dirty lies.
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Paul_Turner

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Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 10:15:27 AM »
Jeff

Those walks are about 60 and 80 yds respectively,  substantial yes but the walk from 16-17 is now about 110 yds (checked on Google Earth).  

I think it was a poor choice for a course that was never going to be a "championship" course.  Probably motivated by the nonsensical need to have a "proper par 5" instead of a great 4/5.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 10:16:17 AM by Paul_Turner »
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tlavin

Re:New 16th Green at St Enodoc
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 10:20:17 AM »
I think some are being a little harsh here.  The green still looks stunning in its setting, IMHO.  I don't know about the bumps and hillocks in the original green and comparing it to the current one, because the monochromatic color of the new green makes it very difficult to discern the nature of the surface.  As to the reason for lengthening the hole, I have no opinion , but the green looks pretty good to me.
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