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Sebonac

Who here is an architect?
« on: August 02, 2002, 10:09:01 AM »
I would be interested to know how many of you out there in Golfclubatlas land are actually Golf course architects...or have been intimately involved with the design or extensive renovation of a golf course...? For all of the criticisms that are thrown around here about today's architects....is anybody here going out and doing something about it....ie...designing better, more interesting courses?  Or is this all from the "armchair" so to speak......?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2002, 10:42:36 AM »
Sebonac:

I would certainly welcome the participation of more practicing architects, superintendents and developers.  But, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the views of people outside of the golf industry.

Why? Because the golf industry is much like other industries and it is awfully difficult for people in an industry to speak candidly about either their own work or that being done by industry colleagues.

Indeed, if input were restricted to people who make their living building golf courses we wouldn't have much discussion on anything.

That said, we are fortunate to have some folks from the industry participate here from time to time.  Those that come immediately to mind include Tom Doak, Geoff Shackelford, Mike DeVries and Jeff Brauer. Also, the Feature Interview section includes some of the industry's most respected people.  The current interview with Jim Urbina is but one excellent example.
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Bye

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2002, 10:46:22 AM »
Me.
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2002, 11:04:27 AM »
Mike Young.

Neal Meagher and Richard Mandell check in every now and then.

What about George Bahto?  Didn't he do that course on L.I.?

Geoff Shackelford co-designed Rustic Canyon.

Archies-in-training:  John Gunning and Cliff Stanfield?

Closet architects:  everyone else.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

baronafan

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2002, 11:06:55 AM »
todd eckenrode
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2002, 11:18:01 AM »
Eckenrode, of course!

Also Kelly Blake Moran.
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Bill Amick

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2002, 11:18:55 AM »
Bill Amick, Golf Course Architect
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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2002, 11:23:32 AM »

Quote
Mike Young.
Neal Meagher and Richard Mandell check in every now and then.
What about George Bahto?  Didn't he do that course on L.I.?
Geoff Shackelford co-designed Rustic Canyon.
Archies-in-training:  John Gunning and Cliff Stanfield?
Closet architects:  everyone else.

Scott:

That is not true.  Jeff McDowell, Tom Doak, and Jeff Brauer are three I can come up with off the top of my head.

I for one am not a closet architect, and I usually can be included in a group as inclusive as "everyone".  At risk of speaking for others, I'll guess that lurking member Dr. Andriole, rare poster Doug Sobieski, and globetrotter Noel Freeman are not "closet architects".

Sebonac:

Many I've met on the board simply like the playing surface as much as the game itself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2002, 11:31:28 AM »
John,

Have you ever doodled holes or courses in pencil on paper?  Designed holes in your mind around places you're familiar, such as college campus, drive to and from work, that old farm near your house?  That's what I mean by "closet architect".  It was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2002, 11:37:02 AM »
I like to think I am. ;D  
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Neal_Meagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2002, 11:43:02 AM »
Sebonac,

You ask if anybody here is going out and doing something about improving today's courses, learning from the criticisms that are thrown around?

Yep, I would say most definitely, at least in a small way that is quickly growing into a full-fledged movement.  And in my case, at least, I can say absolutely that this site has had a profound influence on the way I observe and plan golf courses (if only it could help my game).

Maybe it is because I'm not old and grumpy yet, but there is just so much for architects to glean from this forum if they pry deeply enough.  And I think that goes especially for the ones who are so taken to task, whether rightly or wrongly; at least it helps to recharge one's creative batteries.  Or, it should.

No, this isn't to mean that all new courses ought to have a biarritz and a redan by rote.  What it should mean, as a concept, is that there are deeper levels of thinking and meaning that should be manifested onto the golf course itself.  Specifically, I believe that GCA is helping to reinvigorate the ground game and all of the respective design elements that revolve around that.  Or, perhaps, a certain Armenian scribe is just finally gettin in my head with all of his ideas.

Ultimately, your question can't really be answered right now.  It will only be known in a decade or two's time when we can look back on today as we all look back on the most revered architects of our past.



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2002, 12:16:43 PM »
Gil Hanse & Mike DeVries have been known to contribute now & then, though not as often as I'm sure we'd like - damn those cursed clients. I think Brian Silva has also posted. Several of Tom Doak's & Gil's associates post as well. Brian Phillips is certainly heading for bigger & better things across the pond.

Numerous superintendents post.

Several developers post.

Many writers post.

But, like Tim, I don't think everyone else should be overlooked - if nothing else, we have to let "them" know that not everyone is simply looking for cookie cutter work....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Ed_Baker

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2002, 12:49:25 PM »
Ron Prichard also posts and checks in from time to time.

Hmmm... Sebonac... isn't NGLA on Sebonac Inlet Rd?
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George_Williams

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2002, 01:44:52 PM »
George Williams, Golf Course Architect- have posted something like a whopping 12 times- so. I'm in!
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Slag_Bandoon

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2002, 02:00:18 PM »
Hi, I'm not a real golf architect but I play one on TV.   I auditioned by waving my arms around alot.

"Makeup! I need more Hair-In-A-Can.  Now!  And how come there aren't any sprinkles on my dooughnut?!""
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Rick Phelps

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2002, 03:29:14 PM »
Count me in!
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Jeremy Glenn. (Guest)

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2002, 06:13:18 PM »
I'll bet I've made a number of posts on this DG that have fooled people into thinking that I'm surely not one!  ;D
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Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2002, 06:31:13 PM »
here's my version of a cheap brochure, if this helps.

I've done Master Plan/Restoration/Consulting analyses for 35 courses in 12 states,including both new and classical layouts. A dozen of theee have lead directly to jobs for fulltime architects, including several named above. I help clubs by walking them through a Master Plan and avoiding pitfalls. I don't know if that qualifies me for getting out of the armchair.

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rjstruthers

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2002, 07:45:52 PM »
8) ;) 8) ???

Archie Struthers/ Maybe soon!!!
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John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2002, 08:34:31 PM »
Scott:

Not too long ago I played with a guy who visits this site and asked him about some of the people he'd met.  He explained a surprising number of people in "other" professions actually did envision themselves working in the field of course design in the future.

It fails a key test that I use to determine if a career is suitable for me.  Hard-to-get-into, Low-paid-once-you-get-there.  Like radio (on-air at least), anyone who is visible and successful today endured tremendous sacrifices to get to where they are.  I was not willing to do that.
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2002, 12:53:33 AM »
Sebonac,

This site is the site that inspired me to jump out of golf course construction and start my design business.  People like Jeff Brauer and Tom Doak both encouraged me to jump in and try my hand at it.

TEPaul helped me visit some of the best courses in the Jersey and he also helped me with a green design I was designing here in Norway.

For me and possibly many others this site does help us.  I like to think the ground game will become a major design point in my courses and that is not only taken from the designs of the past but these guys reminds us all the time about it.

I miss people like Dave Wilber posting here as he was very educational.  There is no one on this site that I don't like reading.

So yes this site is helping with the improvement of design.

Brian Phillips
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

TEPaul

Re: Who here is an architect?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2002, 05:48:46 AM »
Brian:

You're mention of the ground game in designers' minds is so important. Firm and fast is making its way back into golf concept and design and if designers don't think of many of its ramifications now in what they conceive of and build they're going to find their concepts and designs minimized and restricted to that valuable old option and its likely return!

I like the way Coore goes about that ground game option. He's always looking at the ground particularly in and around the green areas and visualizing the way the ball bounces and rolls. Certainly he tries to apply all that to how any golfer may think about his options and possiblities.

He even said once at Friars Head's stunning #7 green and green-end that there were some amazing ground game possibilities there. One in particular he said noone may ever pick up on it but if they ever did it was there for them!!

Now how thoughtful and cool is that in a designers mind?
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