In celebration of Waterfalls

[David Wigler]

To the consternation of two of my close friends (One in Chicago, the other in San Francisco) I like waterfalls.  I think a tasteful waterfall adds immeasurably to the aesthetic appeal of a golf course.  My top four got a new addition today.

#1 is #17 at Shadow Creek.  The best-manufactured waterfall I have ever seen and it absolutely makes the hole unforgettable.

#2 is #10 at Pete Dye Golf Club.  A great piece of work.

#3 is #17 at Southshore C.C.  It is so spectacular that it frames two holes.

My new #4 is #9 at Golf Club of Tennessee.  Fazio did a wonderful job of making it look like it has been there forever and it gives the hole great visual appeal.

So I ask, what is wrong with waterfalls (And for those among us man enough to admit we like them) what other courses have unforgettable ones, so I can be sure to see them?

[JakaB]

David,

Do the waterfalls you mention require pumps to keep the water flowing...are waterfalls or flowing streams that are natural gravity presentations beyond reproach.

[THuckaby2]

David, and here I had you in my pantheon of heroes.  Ok, you're such a good guy, you remain.  But this blasphemy causes you to be a flawed hero.  That's ok, those are the most interesting heroes anyway.

I hate EXTRANEOUS, MAN-MADE waterfalls - we just have too many of them at courses here in CA.  Some make me literally ill.  Jeez, let's not get Tommy going on Ted Robinson "waterscapes"...

So perhaps its overexposure to them that makes me hate them.  I can't help but think of how the money might have been better spent, or how I could have saved $10 from my green fee if they just left that as a pond, or well... you know.

That being said, the rare NATURAL waterfall I've seen near a golf course is very cool... can't think of any off the top of my head right now but I know there have been some!

If you like waterfalls though, you must get back out to Palm Desert and play some of the lesser "masterpieces" there.  Courses like Desert Falls and the two at Marriott's Desert Springs would have you dancing with glee.

TH

[brad_miller]

"Natural" waterfall in the back of one of the holes at The Prince Course in HI, also a great "natural" one in back of the 8th hole at Greenwich CC.

[David Wigler]

Tom,

There is a big difference in my book between a natural appearing waterfall and a man made appearing waterscape.

JakaB,

On my list, 1 and 3 are definitely man-made.  2 is natural (I think) and I could not tell on 4.  To me, it is not important whether it is natural, just the way the architect incorporated it into the golf course.

I'll give you an example of a horrible waterfall.  The one at La Costa.  It does nothing for the hole, looks out of place and is dreck.  Another example is the one Revere at Anthem.  It is gratuitous.  Done with skilled hands, these can add so much to a course.  I'll agree with Tom though, done incorrectly, they can wreck a course.

[THuckaby2]

WHEW!  Ok, I can dig all this.  You are back in the pantheon of heroes without flaw, David.  I'm still gonna err on the side of hating all extraneous water features unless they are exceptionally well done, but the way you describe this I can live with most definitely.

Well said.

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

David,

     You certainly have made Ted Robinson's day!

     I really like waterfalls, but not on golf courses. It really just seems like a huge waste of money to me and I have yet to see one that made a hole more strategic.  Ask the people at Washington National outside Seattle how much they like there waterfall on the 15th hole.  Fought built that one and another at Trophy Lake on the 18th, although it really is more off to the side.

    Contrary to popular belief Ted is able to build a golf course without a waterfall on it, I've actually seen them.

[David Wigler]

Craig,

Believe it or not, #10 at Pete Dye actually does affect the strategy of the hole.  The waterfall runs right out of an old mining stream, goes under the green and then crashes down to the river.  It definitely affects the way the balls react on the green and it is really cool.  Have you played the course?

[A_Clay_Man]

David- Do you actually like the mega-manufactured ones? Even the ones at Shadow Creek are totally forced. There are just way too many rocks on the first. Compared to Weiskopf' Forest Highlands where he hinted at the hazrd with some sparcely spaced rocks but still clearly idenifying a hazard. And his water fall was about 12 inches, absolutely beautifull and natural looking.

Anyone whos been to Hawaii has seen examples of real Falls, and very few golf course Falls, have ever seemed natural, to me.  But there are a few and I think thier secret is that they are rarely more than a trickle over some rocks. Understated. brook-like.

[Cb]

In Austin, #7 at The Hills of Lakeway (Nicklaus) is a nice par 3 to a green perched atop a ledge fronted by a waterfall.  #18 at Barton Creek (Fazio Foothills) has a somewhat siller waterfall emerging from the ground by the green and cascading part of the way down the hole.

While they're spending so much money on these things, why not put a few extra pumps in to get the waterfall to flow UP the hill?   That would be truly memorable!

[Mike_Cirba]

David;

I'm speechless.  If a waterfall exists on the property and the architect can utilize it effectively either strategically (although it's still just another water-hazard) or aesthetically (that's what state parks are for), fine.  The artificial creation of them, however, is a trend in design that reeks of conspicuous consumption, over-design, form over function, and in my experience, simply gives the golfer something to ooo and aaaa over as a distraction from a mediocre golf hole.

What's next?  A post glorifying island fairways surrounded by flower beds, shored up with railroad ties?

[David Wigler]

Mike,

I am very serious about this post.  A golf course will live or die based on its merits as a golf course.  Aesthetics are part of what can enhance its merits.  

I could never be married to someone without a stellar personality.  We have to spend too much time together for her not to have it.  The fact that she is beautiful isn't a bad thing.  It is all the better.  

Cypress Point might have been my favorite course of all time without #16.  With #16, it does not even have a close rival for number 2.  The waterfall on #9 at Golf Club of Tennessee is simple, elegant, understated and makes the green complex unforgettable.  Why is that a bad thing?  Is the hole worse because Fazio added a feature (Irrelevant to the playing of the hole) that makes the hole more beautiful?  In the hands of a lesser talent (Robinson for example) waterfalls are used to create interest because the course lacks interest without them (Read beautiful girl who can barely speak without drooling).  In the hands of a genius like Fazio, waterfalls can accentuate other features as part of a total package.  I am all for that kind of work!

[Mike_Cirba]

David;

Are you seriously comparing what Cypress would be like without the 16th on the cliffs over the crashing, God-made Pacific Ocean versus what a Fazio course in Tennessee would be like if he didn't build a beautiful waterfall?!?

There's a local course where the owner had some extra money and insisted that the architect build him a grand waterfall and rock display beneath the clubhouse between the 9th and 18th greens.  It looks pretty decent as a waterfall, almost natural, even, except for the fact that it looks UGLY as sin on a golf course in a county where everyone knows that there isn't a natural waterfall within 100 MILES!!  It stands out as incongruously as one might imagine if you have any familiarity with the natural landforms in the area.  

And yes, it's even strategic, because a ball going right of the 18th green might bounce off the rocks, or get caught in the swirling rapids and never be found.....

...but I still don't know what the heck that has to do with golf!

[Matt Kardash]

you know what both sides are right....the average weekend hack thinks that a waterfall is nice and will put a smile on his face as he shows the waterfall to his playing partner...and we should understand that it is that type of person that makes up like 98% of all golfers...the average golfer doesn't care about the course's strategy, all he cares about is that it looks nice(auguta syndrome)....and you know what, there is nothing wrong with that...my father is exactly that way..i am convinced he bases the merits of a course on the condition and how beautiful the course is...and i know that almost everyone else thinks thats way..even tho i dont think that way, i can still see their side...it is just us 700-something golf geeks on this website that care about these things..we are the vast minority...most golfers can't even name the 4 majors, let alone know what a redan is...so maybe waterfalls are evil and contrived, but sometimes it doesn't hurt to look outside your own personal views

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I love waterfalls too. My favorites are Iguazu in S.America (I think it was used in a Bond film), the falls at Yosimite and Yellowstone and Reichenback Falls - where Holmes met his end (or at least we thought he met his end). The best man-made blending with a natural falls is Fallingwater. I've yet to find a good man-made falls on a golf course (of course excluding putt-putt).

I'm not a big fan of gratuitous use of artificial water features, although I do think there is a place for an artificial 'Old Faithful'-like guyser. In fact I think it might revolutionize the game and I've sent my idea to a couple of very well known golf architects. Don't you think the unpredicatablity is a perfect match with golf's general unfairness?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

I don't know if you've noticed, but it's tough to get the rocky Pacific Coast effect in Tennessee.

David Wigler,

I'm not so quick to make a blanket condemnation of any feature without seeing it, and how it fits into the golf course.

The waterfall at # 17 at Shadow Creek fits the hole.

To the purist posters, would you prefer to see a building, or a home and maintainance barn or a water feature that you could mistake as authentic ?

[Paul Richards]

Patrick:

You make a good point.  If the waterfall is covering up something like a maintenance barn, or a pump house, isn't it a big less obtrusive?  If it's just there to be the "biggest" or "most amazing" (see Trump!) then that's obviously different.  But if it's there to serve a purpose, that's a better excuse for it.

[David Wigler]

Mike,

Of course I am not comparing Cypress and the Golf Club.  In fact, I think I stated that Cypress is beyond compare.  I am highlighting that Cypress is great without the need for the eye-candy.  The eye-candy just makes it better.  Although I can only think of one waterfall that actually is part of the strategy of the hole (Pete Dye) I cannot think of any waterfalls that detract from the strategy of the hole.  If the course works and the owner wants to spend money to add beautification features, go for it.

PS - If you haven't yet, you should see the waterfall at The Golf Club of Tennessee and Pete Dye and tell me if they hurt the course.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Pat is right, however, there are not many falls that are used to cover something.  In a case of Shadow Creek, where the entire course was man-made I can see it fitting.  However, 100-feet waterfalls, which are obviously man-made, seem contrived.

Brad's comment re: the one on the 12th hole at Princeville fits in fine, most do not even notice it.

On the whole, I do not think waterfalls are good for the game, from an asthetics or (more obviously) a strategic standpoint.

[Mike Hendren]

I haven't been out to The Golf Club of Tennessee in a few years, but unless they've added a waterfall to the creek down the right side of no. 9 or re-numbered the holes, I believe David is referring to the waterfall behind the short part three tenth.  I was not aware that the waterfall is manufactured.  Middle TN has a thin soil base that exposes limestone bluffs, one of which forms the back-drop to no. 10.  I thought this was an entirely natural feature fed by a spring or wet weather spring.  If Fazio created it, he deserves kudos.  

[John bernhardt]

How can anyone be against running water or a natural waterfall. We just do not have naturally occuring ones or places they can be put in and appear natural. The trend toward thinking it is good to have fake ones disturbs me as much as Jack N golf courses in general. Let the natural beauty of the land be your guide and all will be good.

[David Wigler]

Mike,

I like the waterfall on 10 as well and it is manufactured.  On the right side of #9 (Beside the green) they have two beautiful waterfalls.  The water is barely running over the edge and then compressing against the limestone before falling into the creek.  The are very subtle and really aesthetically pleasing.  Fazio did fantastic work on them.

BTW, are you Tiger Woods in disguise?  I hit a full 5-iron into the 205-yard (Short - ?) par 3 tenth.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jaka B,

I think nearly all waterfalls are enhanced with pumps.  In most areas of the country, streams go occaisonally dry, often in summer, during the busiest golf season.  Most owners would want to be sure their prime time customers see all the course has to offer, and add pumps just to be sure.

Technically, it is actually better to build a waterfall outside a natural water course, as the occaisonal heavy rain can wash out all but the sturdiest subgrade, and natural streams have to be concreted over to hold up, and even lesser flood cause debris cleanup and damage.  Better to create a fake stream coming into a fake water fall, if you are going to do it....Don't ask me how I know this.

I don't know if you have been to Opryland in Nashville, but they have many interior waterfalls in the hotel.  When we brought up the idea for the course, they mentioned that its not even worth doing if the pump is less than 3000GPM.  It takes that much, or more, to create the big splashes at a place like Shadow Creek.

There are very few places, IMHO, where a waterfall is a real addtion to a golf course, but Shadow Creek and all of Palm Springs are so artificial anyway, they would be two good examples where they probably work.  Wherever an owner or architect decides they are necessary, then, the techicalities of making them really, really work are probably more involved than almost any golfer would think.

Truth in posting announcement -

I have created waterfalls on Holes 1 and 3 at Colbert Hills (gently enhancing the natural stream bed with 600GPM), Springhouse GC (at 4 green) and am doing two at Fortune Bay in Tower, MN right now, which is why this caught my attention.

[Slag_Bandoon]

 My favorite waterfall is natural - created by the sixteen ounce per hour intake of cheap, smuggled beer.  No pumps, just gravity and relaxation.   The waterfall,  I know this sounds formulaic but, should generally be positioned behind a large tree.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Finally, something every one on this site can agree on.