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Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Vegas in January
« on: January 21, 2008, 10:35:59 AM »
I played the Wolf Course at Paiute reservation over the weekend.  The course was adequate but the conditioning was a pleasant surprise.

The course played very firm and fast with quick greens.  The grass was dormant.  It was a great change from heavily watered and overseeded Phoenix courses.

Weather was beautiful with an 11 am tee time - high 50's and light breezes.  We had an 8:30 on Sunday and cancelled because it was so cold.

Matt_Ward

Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 01:07:52 PM »
Jason:

What was your take on the island par-3 hole on the inner half? I viewed it as a lame repeat effort from Pete and frankly the hole is completely out of place given the native area.

One of the better holes at the course is the finale. I like what Pete did there -- long par-4 with watering angling alongside the drive zone -- because you have to decide how daring an angle of attack you wish to play.

Glad to hear the turf conditions were firm - you were most fortunate to play early in the day -- Wolf has a tendency to be a MEGA WIND tunnel towards the afternoon period on most days.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 01:10:47 PM »
Really like that course - the Island green is obviously oddly placed but hey, people come to Vegas for odd things (And I birdied the thing)

When I played (Mid December 2006) it was in great shape and I froze my ass off.  Eagled the 3rd, though, so that was worth freezing for.

The other two courses are average and unremarkable - Wolf is definitely superior.


John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 02:39:38 PM »
I also did not like the island green, but loved the overly shaped par 3 #8 w/ the very deep bunker left.

Felt like Pete Dye channelling his PGA West days.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Matt_Ward

Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 02:44:55 PM »
The real interesting situation for Vegas golf will be the reception that Coyote Springs gets when it opens later this year. No doubt the first 18 will set the tone for what follows.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 03:01:13 PM »
Jason:

What was your take on the island par-3 hole on the inner half? I viewed it as a lame repeat effort from Pete and frankly the hole is completely out of place given the native area.

One of the better holes at the course is the finale. I like what Pete did there -- long par-4 with watering angling alongside the drive zone -- because you have to decide how daring an angle of attack you wish to play.

Glad to hear the turf conditions were firm - you were most fortunate to play early in the day -- Wolf has a tendency to be a MEGA WIND tunnel towards the afternoon period on most days.

Matt:

I agree on the island hole.  It is close to a replica without actually being one.  If they were going to come that close, they should have made it identical.  

I also agree on the 18th although I did not notice that the water came into play off the tee (we played it at 475) - perhaps it was blissful first time ignorance.  The bunker left was real well placed for me.  I was trying to hit the drive just off the right edge of it.

I also really liked the 9th.  The green was pretty wicked.

We played it in nearly calm conditions and it clearly was built for more wind.  Many of the bunkers seemed in oddly forgiving spots, but their placement makes sense if it is a windy site.  

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 03:03:36 PM »
I also did not like the island green, but loved the overly shaped par 3 #8 w/ the very deep bunker left.

Felt like Pete Dye channelling his PGA West days.

#8 was fun, I hooked it into a back right pin which I doubt is a real common play.

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 04:13:36 PM »
I don't think Pete was the Dye that designed this course. He has said that he has only built 2 island greens, and those would be TPC and PGA West.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 06:50:30 PM »
The real interesting situation for Vegas golf will be the reception that Coyote Springs gets when it opens later this year. No doubt the first 18 will set the tone for what follows.

a good point Matt

the original  plan was for 10 (!!) courses there...not sure if they are public or private or a combo thereof

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Peter Nomm

Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 07:11:18 PM »
Wolf is much more demanding off the tee than the other two.  There are some fun holes on the other courses as well - but no doubt the Wolf is their baby.  

Played the island green twice and both times was downwind with about a 25-MPH wind.  Very tough to hold, even with a wedge or short iron.  It can really blow up there.  But it has always had firm conditions when I have played it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 07:11:31 PM by Peter Nomm »

Matt_Ward

Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2008, 10:51:30 AM »
Wolf is one demanding layout -- particularly when you take it on in a strong wind -- which often happens on most afternoons. I have to say that the location of Paiute makes for some of the most demanding wind patterns.

The problem, as I see it, is Wolf doesn't really add much on the architectural dimension. Plenty of it is boilerplate Dye stuff -- whether Pete did it or his sons makes little difference for me.

There are a few holes of note -- I also liked the dog-leg right 15th hole (?) on Wolf -- one needs to be extremely mindful of the play from the tee.

The island hole is nothing more than a replica version of what Pete did elsewhere and it stands out like a zit on one's face.

The ending hole, as I opined previously, is a much different stort. The H20 is a factor -- because you can't drive over it and the slightest push to get a much more desired angle can be a Davey Jones locker result. The bunker on the left side is well done and the green is big enough -- but not too big -- to keep your approach play honest.

Like I said previously, the inclusion of Coyote Springs will be a major statement on whether Vegas golf can add another level of excitement or if it will simply be more holes of the same.

We shall soon see ...

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 11:20:45 AM »
I always felt the Paiute reservation complex was one of the best daily fees facilities I've ever expereinced...in addition to the great courses, the clubhouse is very well done and the pro shop merchandising top notch....I have always felt like I've gotten my money's worth playing here, which can't always be said of other Vegas or resort facilities.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 11:21:20 AM by Bruce Katona »

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Vegas in January
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 10:36:22 PM »
Has anyone played Rio Secco in colder weather?  I just wonder what the T-mates are wearing....
http://www.riosecco.net/layout9.asp?id=604&page=32616

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