Visual question about 10th at NGLA...

[R.S._Barker]

Hello,

In my never-ending study of NGLA, I've reached the 10th and have a question concerning the green and the fairway that fronts it.

From the pics I have, it looks as if the fairway is tilted slightly downward towards the green, and fronting the green is a depression in the fairway to the immediate front-right of the green itself. If this is correct, what would be a good guess to the depth of that depression ? 2 or 3 feet ?

Am I correct to assume that the green itself whilst below the fairway proper, actually is fairly flat at the back, and a bit higher nearest the deep bunker just fronting the green ?

Overall, the green looks relatively flat, perhaps like the 5th hole Hog's Back.

I also note the fairway / fringe extension that comes to a point on the other side of the deep bunker that sits directly in front of the green from the fairway - was this originally there  or was it added later ?

Personally, I'm amazed by that simple little extension and wonder if C.B. saw that and used the flow of the land to create it that way.

Finally, one of the regulars here was kind enough to send me the Pin positions from this past July's tournament ( Thank you ! ).

In looking at the pin positions for the 10th, I wonder if any of the regular players/visitors to NGLA have ever seen a pin placed JUST over that fronting bunker on the 10th - right on the point of the green itself ?

IF not, I'd think it would be ideal to scare the bejesus out of someone ( read - me ) whom faces that type of approach shot in.

Thanks in advance gentlemen for your advice and comments regarding what I regard as the finest course on the planet.

R.S. Barker

[TEPaul]

R.S.

Now that you're turning--how did you make out on the front?

I'm not that clear what you're saying about the immediate front (directly inline in front of the green). There's a bit there in my recollection but not much.

The hole isn't short and other than downwind--which is slightly the prevailing wind, players can have a long shot in to that green which probably explains why it was designed the way it is and the original length of the green.

Firstly, I think Kark Olsen reclaimed a ton of greenspace there recently at the back! The green is immensely long (I walked it and can't recall exactly but it's at least 50 yds long)! Basically the hole falls from back to front and putting down to that narrow greenspace at the front of the green can take some real talent in "pace".

That's the first thing as calculating approach shot distance on #10 takes thought as we're probably talking 5-6 clubs difference in club selection!

The narrow front section makes the green and approach, in my opinion, and it's brilliantly done with the combination of the enormous fairway bailout area to the right, the dip of that fairway area next to the green and the upslope to the green and how the green then filters gently right to left into the left greenside bunker. The other safe approach option to a front pin is to play the ball well beyond the front pin to the much wider green section behind the front pin.

What the bailout area effectively does is create a fairly dicey recovery if you play safe to that front pin into the fairway chipping area to the right. My oponent a year ago got his ball onto the green from the right chipping area and it filtered into that left bunker.

Basically this green is beautifully conceived strategically with the bailout area (and larger back greenspace) particularly the front section of the green (an bunker left) with the bailout area. The dip from the bailout area to the upslope to the green probably isn't much more than a foot but then the green front runs left on you from there (towards the left bunker) once over the upslope.

All this good stuff (the narrow front green section) also combines blindness to it from out in the approach fairway area!

Another interesting aspect to this hole is the fairway is extremely large and wide and a golfer can take his pick of angle to approach this green (and the front section) from inline narrow or way out to the right which effectively increses the width of the front section (but at the same time reduces its depth!!). Frankly, I think the hole couldn't go wrong if they even had more fairway out to the left--that would bring the cross bunkers more into play!

But all this extreme fairway width works very well with the prevailing wind which tends to quarter over your left shoulder!

[Gene Greco]

Seems to me that the upslope from the bailout area increases as one moves closer to the back of the green. However, the ensuing downslope once on the green increases from back to front. Thus, two different types of recovery shots are required.

Can you believe how much strategic thought went into the construction of this golf course? The permutations are endless and your study, RS, is inexhaustable.

[George Bahto]

RS: the 10th is one of the underrated holes at NGLA - great options off the tee and if you are on the left of the fairway you have to make a super shot over lots of trouble. What I like about the fairway bailout area near the green is how it is so artistically offset to the right of the centerline of play.

A most difficult hole into the wind - you might get to the green!

The green is tilted very severely back to front with all sorts of major and minor features.

One of my favorite holes on the course.

[TEPaul]

I might just add that since the approach to #10 is quite blind, particularly the front section until you get to know the hole a little you very well might hit what you think is a good shot to the front and find yourself to the right of the green.

And when you come to know that approach to that front section better the narrowness of it combined with that bunker left and the complications of the bailout area right are always in your head--at least in mine! My choice generally on that approach is to get a little conservative and go well beyond the front pin and just putt back--not the easiest putt due to pace problems but I'd rather be there than in the left bunker or even the bailout area!

[Gib_Papazian]

TE,

I was just there on Thursday and the breeze was helping a bit. My observation is that if the wind is in your face, that bail-out to the right of the putting surface is not a bad spot if the pin is cut on the bottom tier.

You can putt it up the swale onto the green because it is mowed so tight, which is a much easier shot than trying to nip a little wedge.

The back tier has always given me fits, but if you can hook a long-iron or fairway around the bunkers fronting the green, it is possible to run it onto the putting surface. Of course, it all set up on the tee with the cross-hazard on the left side.

Brilliant hole that takes my breath away. The ghost in the sand hills let me whistle one 6 inches away for a tap-in birdie, but promptly took it back and more on the 12th, which might be the most maddening approach shot in all of golf for me.

[R.S._Barker]

TEPaul,

I'm mightily impressed with the detail that C.B. instilled in this course, and as I've progressed through the front side, I've learned one thing which I seem to say on a daily basis...C.B. is a Genius...period.

I can't imagine any other course on the planet that has this amount of detail, depth in design quality AND quantity, and pure majestic look. As I have stated in my signature, NGLA has won my heart and soul. I always considered Portmarnock to be my favorite course, but even the mighty Port fails to touch the sincerity and appreciation that NGLA has given me for a single course both from a design and artistic point of view.

As always, my sincere appreciation and admiration for all of your input in this thread...this is why GCA remains a favorite place for me, because here I find those wisened souls whom speak of Golf and it's triumphant depth with both awe, and respect.

Thank you,

R.S. Barker

[TEPaul]

Gib;

Talk to me about your impressions of the approach to the 12th green and the ramifications of the green itself. I seem to recall you once said you didn't really like it--it wasn't original etc. I'm not aware it's not original--if not what was and who changed the green and why?

I love that green--it's one of the most interesting to approach and putt on the course. It's the one approach that's made me hit a type of approach I really don't want to try and one I'm not that good at--but it seems to force me to do it anayway! And I've screwed it up a number of time (usually by trying to bump a shot in with a club that has too much loft!) and I say to myself--why don't I just go with a shot I know better and then quickly think to myself--that probably would be worse! I love that green and approach and conceptually it should be copied on other courses!

[Gib_Papazian]

Tom.

I sort of go back and forth about #12, because so much of the hole has been a mystery to me.

There is some evidence that the tee was originally behind or to the left of the double-plateau (#11 for those who have never been to Heaven), but it must have been Macdonald himself who moved it to the right.

My observation is that the angle from behind #11 seems to present the bunkers both visually and strategically at a better angle. From the teeing ground on the left, the fairway bunkers seem to be oriented at a slightly awkward angle - and one that does not reflect C.B.'s 45 degree philosophy.

But in the end, what do I know? I'm just the towel boy for the icon and damned lucky to study at the feet of the master. I'll leave the speculation to Uncle George.

All this said, I stil tried to sneak a draw around the right hand bunker (furthest from the left) off the tee and watched my pathetic attempt to outwit the ghost be deposited into the cat box with no hope of reaching home.

Unfortunately, despite many rounds, I have only made par once - under the guidance of Timmonds my first time around. Most bouts inevitably end in double-bogey.
The problem is the anthill putting surface, segmented by a severe hump on the top right side.

Thursday I hit a wonderful 6-iron out of the fairway bunker to only 30 yards in front of the green. The putter was not cooperating, but the rest of the bag was behaving well.

I thought about taking the sand wedge and hittiing a little bumper to the left of the hump and feeding it down.

But no, the idiot from San Francisco pulls out the 8-iron. With my father in the cart as my gallery, I nudge one into the run-up and watch it wander past the pin and keep going directly into the back bunker.

Not a bad sand shot, but six it was again.

Even when I rip a drive (Dave Wigler's 3-iron), there isn't a club in my bag to hit the green. The run-up runs over, the higher approach sucks off the front. Even when I find the putting surface, it is on the wrong side of the hump and the 7 footer for par never drops.

If you look at the plasticine model of the green on the wall of Karl's shed, there is a punchbowl of sorts shown, but I do not know if it was ever built that way.

If anyone ever invites me to play in a tournament there, I'm just going to consider bogey a great score and pretend par is 74.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I believe that it was a good portion of the front of the green that was reclaimed.

This allows for that difficult forward pin behind the deep bunkering, with the green running away before it begins its upward climb toward the back.

Holes # 10, 11, and 12 are sometimes more difficult downwind, especially with the pin forward on # 10, on the left plateau on # 11, and just behind the ridge on # 12.

Experience, proper shot selection, and of course, a good deal of skill and luck can be of great assistance.