Show Us Your "Shorts": Langford and the Short Hole Template

[Phil McDade]

Dan:

Is Culver that over-treed? I thought you'd mis-posted your Kankakee pics with the Culver pics. Do the trees inhibit some of the teeing ground? One of the neat things about Lawsonia's 7th short (notice the small "s" ) is the two different teeing pads that provide slightly different angles and looks into that green.

I like that Banks Short; it looks pretty much true to form.

[RJ_Daley]

I just pulled up the newest aerial for CC of Charleston after the restoration.  It looks spectacular, and check out the 'birdseye' of the 17th short.  The third is their 'Eden' and 17 is a classic short, with the soap dish in the middle, though it can't be seen in the new aerial or birdseye.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=pftfgz8b2c0f&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=11543275&encType=1

That Culver short is a spanker if they'd restore that whole green and loose the trees.  What's the matter with them, not doing that?  It isn't THAT much work to regain a classic hole.  Geez, if you had a nice work of art or craftsmanship, wouldn't you polish it and maintain it?  I don't understand some of these golf course ownerships or caretakers...  

[Phil McDade]

Dick:

Well, I know that when Dan and Eric played Kankakee Elks and started tossing around renovation suggestions to the club pro, they got something of a "Are you from Mars?" look.

Here's the link to the Kankakee thread, and try to avoid the tears looking at those wonderful dormant L/M bunkers hidden/obscured/neutered by the (planted) forests. Ughh...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=30665;start=msg594929#msg594929

P.S. Note Dan's accolades for Kankakee's 12th, with what appears to be obvious parallels to a traditional Short. Dan suggests it's the best small Langford green he's seen.

[Dan Moore]

Phil,

Actually Culver is not that bad on trees.  That particular hole (along with the greensite for the preceeding hole, think the 15th at Spring Valley) was carved out of a pre-existing forest.  Most of the other holes are pretty wide open.  Too bad they never built at least one of the other nine holes L/M originally designed for what was intended to be a 27 hole facility.  Those are some plans I'd love to see someday.  

[Phil McDade]

Dan:

I had thought Culver was relatively open; that one picture threw me for a loop. Perhaps reminiscent of West Bend's front nine, where parts of 6, all of 7 and 8, and the tee of 9 are carved from an old-growth forest. Spring Valley's 15th and 5/16 tees are similarly situated.

Does Culver have the land available? Probably not the money, although that place has some well-heeled alums.