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J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« on: January 18, 2008, 04:48:46 PM »
http://www.worldgolf.com/course-reviews/england/stoke-park-club.htm

As the above course review shows, its widely believed that Augusta's 12th is modeled on Stoke Park's 7th.  

What other holes influenced the original design of ANGC?  If Augusta had an ancestry, what would it be?

Just thought I'd start up a new conversation that was more on topic.  Sorry if this is a simplistic or long-discussed topic.  :)
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 04:53:12 PM »
Justin,
worry not. I never tire of dispelling the dreams of newbies.

Augusta 12 is CLEARLY based on PITREAVIE 12 and NO OTHER. Join me on the dark side and we shall rule the world - well, maybe the imaginary world inhabited by saddo GCAers at least...

 ;D ;D ;D
F B D.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 04:55:44 PM »
But didn't MacKenzie build Pitreavie?  If so, wouldn't it be possible that Stoke Park 7 was MacKenzie's influence to build Pitreavie 12, and then Augusta 12?
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 05:03:41 PM »
Colt inspiration.
MacKenzie perfection.
Bonnar bankruption....

just a wee private joke ;D

Agreed. Ally MacK may well be my hero, but Harry Shap was beyond brilliant. What a genius.

FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 05:12:45 PM »
Quote from: Martin Glynn Bonnar on January 18, 2008, 04:53:12 PM
Justin,
worry not. I never tire of dispelling the dreams of newbies.

Augusta 12 is CLEARLY based on PITREAVIE 12 and NO OTHER. Join me on the dark side and we shall rule the world - well, maybe the imaginary world inhabited by saddo GCAers at least...

 ;D ;D ;D
F B D.

Let's see...17h00 EST -> 22h00 Zulu time.  Martin, how was dinner and I see you have begun training in earnest for Burns Night.

Excellent post and careful lest your cheery posts ban you from Saddo World.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 05:13:19 PM by Mark Bourgeois »
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 05:18:43 PM »
Mark,
10pm it is. Barooga Station in the glass, the Hope on the box, GCA on the wireless laptop. Boy, this is really living!

I wonder what the poor people are doing this evening?

 ;D
The Other MB..... 8)
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 05:45:04 PM »
Justin,

The 4th hole is meant to be inspired by the Eden hole at TOC. Although not an exact replica it does have the ultra deep front right bunker and more importantly, extreme back to front slope of the putting surface.

I believe the original 7th was inspired by the Home hole at TOC; it even had a mini Valley of Sin. However when professionals started driving near or on the green it was considered weak and the new fortress like green was built furthewr down the fairway by Perry Maxwell.
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"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 06:52:43 PM »
Mr. Jones wrote a book in 1960 in which he described the holes in detail and some of their influences.  In addition to those already mentioned, he wrote that the fifth green was inspired by the Road hole at St. Andrews.  Presumably, he meant that they intended players to play approaches just short of the green and run them on -- though I'd guess it's been a long time since anybody tried that approach.
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Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 07:24:43 PM »
Tom,

Yes, Mackenzie compares the 5th with the Road Hole at TOC. Others include:

The 8th green was inspired by the 17th at Muirfield.

MacKenzie also compares the 6th with the original redan at North Berwick.

The 4th was inspired by the 11th (Eden) hole at TOC.

The 17th green was constructed with the 14th green at TOC in mind.

The 16th is similar to the 7th at Stoke Poges, England.

The 14th was inspired by the 6th hole at TOC.

The 13th was inspired by "the ideal hole" as depicted in C.B. MacDonald's book.??

The 10th hole embodies the best features of the 4th hole at Alwoodly.

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G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 07:47:31 PM »
Quote from: Justin Sadowsky on January 18, 2008, 04:48:46 PM
http://www.worldgolf.com/course-reviews/england/stoke-park-club.htm

As the above course review shows, its widely believed that Augusta's 12th is modeled on Stoke Park's 7th.  

What other holes influenced the original design of ANGC?  If Augusta had an ancestry, what would it be?

Just thought I'd start up a new conversation that was more on topic.  Sorry if this is a simplistic or long-discussed topic.  :)

This is one of the biggest myths in golf (probably tied with the story of Hogan's Alley at Carnoustie), and it keeps getting repeated (even by the Stoke Park website). The hole at Stoke Park was the inspiration for the original version of what is now the 16th hole at Augusta (which played at a right angle to the current hole, from the right side of the 15th green to a green at the base of the hill below the 6th tee).
The 12th at Augusta has nothing to do with Stoke Park.
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Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008, 10:23:05 PM »
Any truth to this credit given to Baltusrol?

http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/2005/hole_13.html
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Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta National: Stoke Park and other influences
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2008, 09:36:57 PM »
"The hole at Stoke Park was the inspiration for the original version of what is now the 16th hole at Augusta, not the 12th!"

According to my material ....... Mr. Jones is right.

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