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Tony Pioppi

Redtail Golf CLub
« on: April 16, 2002, 08:19:14 PM »
Brian Silva's latest creation is Red Tail Golf Club in Devens, Mass, about 20 minutes north of Worcester. The 18-hole daily fee layout is located on land that was once part of Ft. Devens. The entire military area was not closed and training exercises still take place within earshot of some of the holes.
      Although an 18-hole Phil Wogan design once resided inside the fort, Silva's layout is not near the previous course.
      As we've come to expect with Silva designs, Red Tail is full of wonderful uses of angles off the tee and on the approach shot. If a tee ball calls for a fade, the second shot may set up for a draw, and vice versa. He also challenges players with bunker placements that offer a reward for a well executed carry shot and heavy penalties for balls that land in the sand.
      The course is, and will be maintained, firm allowing for the ground game. I played in a group of 11 on Saturday, including Silva and associate Brian Johnson, and even though the area had received some rain during the week, the ground remained firm. Ability of players went from low single digits to high handicappers. Course played well for all skill levels.
      Again as we've seen before on Silva layouts (Cape Cod National, Black Creek), he creates some intriguing closely mown areas around the greens that allow for a variety of shots. There were long putts, running iron approaches, bump-and-runs as well as arching sand wedges.
      Red Tail has three-shot par 5s and others that are reachable in two, a good array of distances on the par 3s, and a variety of par 4s, including the 6th (264-365 yards) that may be reachable.
About halfway into our round a wild wind with plenty of sudden gusts kicked up adding to the drama.
While there are no wetlands to deal with, Silva did have one design constraint. Because the area around some of the former buildings are loaded with pesticides that accumulated over the years, the foundations could not be removed and instead had to be covered over. At no point is it obvious you are standing on top of a foundation, the middle of a street or on somebody's front yard.
      
      Photos courtesy of Kyle Zimmerman.

      First shot is of No. 3, a reverse Redan style hole that plays 185 from the back, 125 from the front. Silva created a bailout area to the left that allows for the up-and-down. What I like about the hole is that even though it tilts away from the line of flight, the angle is not so severe as to dissuade the golfer from trying to fly the ball onto the middle of the green and let it feed to the back cupping areas.



      Second photo is of No. 14 that plays 440 from the back and 316 from the front. Left bunker is in play. Waste area is on the left. Although second shot is uphill, Silva set his green site into a natural hollow creating a wonderful punchbowl. Par 3, 15th tee can be seen above the green.



      Third photo is of the 17th that goes from 305 to 406 yards. It is obviously a risk-reward tee ball over a large waste area. (the 14th fairway is visible in the distance). Fairway drops off slightly as it nears the green complex and the putting surface sits at grade, enticing the run-up second shot. One playing partner, Keith Angilly, smoked a drive from the 385 teeing area that rode a left-to-right wind and he had less than 100 yards into the hole.
      What is not visible in the photo is abandoned grass-covered ammunition bunkers off to the right. Because the Army was afraid of sparks if the grass was mowed by machine, goats were brought in to maintain the bunkers. Goats are gone as well.




      Any questions, Apioppi@earthlink.net.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2002, 08:29:33 PM »
Course looks fun, but what's with the three bunkers short of the green in the first photo. The bunker up by the green looks like it belongs but what is the purpose of the other three and did they all have to be identical?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2002, 05:00:09 AM »
Tony
Thanks for the right up. It looks to be pretty interesting terrain. What are the cart paths made of?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2002, 07:21:24 AM »
Don Mahaffey,

Actually, the bunker in the second pic looks identical, as well.

Tony, thanks for sharing the pics, though.  

I really like the inverse humped fairway in the second pic, although I have to admit that I hate when cart parts provide an "assist" to balls finding the woods.

But, what's with the sharp shelving on the first pic?  Although I don't mind the bunkers that are seemingly out of play, it seems as though the natural landfall would have created enough grade to achieve the desired affect.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Anthony Pioppi

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2002, 09:15:49 AM »
Don,
      I don't want to speak for Brian Silva, but I would guess those are just random bunkers. I know that often times he just puts sand into areas that are part of the natural land form creating bunkers that do not have to have a specific purpose.

      Tom,
      Cart paths are made ofground up pavement from the roads that ran through what is now the golf course. Another example of golf being environmentally friendly, this time through an innovative recycling method.

      Mike,
      Fairway in second photo is extremely wide. Any shot out there is a big miss. Because the substance used on the paths is more like crushed stone that pavement or cement, balls do not bound off the surface.
      Not sure I understand your question about the sharp shelving. The green site was there from what I understand. I think just a small amount of soil was moved to make the green complex.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2002, 09:20:27 AM »
Hi Tony,

The shelving I'm referring to on the par three is the one that is built up to accommodate a fairway, looking to start about 30 yards in front of the forward tee, and continuing on to the green, with the sharp falloff on the right edge of the fairway, which was obviously built up to accommodate some flatness for fairway play.  

Are you saying that the whole thing is a natural land form?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Anthony Pioppi

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2002, 10:03:41 AM »
First, I need to make a correction. Phil Wogan did not design the first golf couse. Mel Lucas (former GCSAA president) and former Vesper CC superintendent Bert Fredrick did.

Mike,

The fairway on the third hole was strengthened to hold shots. Apparently there was a small shelf but was cantered so much to the right that any ball landing there would end up deep into the right rough.

Anthony


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2002, 01:01:50 PM »
Tony:

Do you have any info on total course yardage from the tips ... slope and course rating? Many thanks ...

matt
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2002, 08:27:13 PM »
Don Mahaffey:

My reaction to those three bunkers was just like yours.


Tony Pioppi:

It is very nice of you to provide the pictures and give us a sense of the property.

That aside, I must ask about your comment on "random bunkers .....that serve no specific purpose".

What is that all about?  Does Silva believe in such a thing?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Tim Weiman

Anthony Pioppi

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2002, 07:11:27 AM »
Matt,

As far as I know the Mass. Golf Association has been at Red Tail, but not come up with a rating yet. I did not carry a scorecard with me, so I am not positive about the yardages, but I think 6,700 from the tips sounds right. I believe the web site is redtailgolf.net.

Don,

Does Silva believe in random bunkering? Big time. Look again at the top photo. The first bunker is about 30 yards from the forward tees. Initially, that area was just a hollow that Silva decided to fill with sand.

Anthony
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

The Stalker

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2002, 08:23:47 PM »
Having played Red Tail last Saturday with Mr Pioppi and guests, I can say that it's a very good test of golf for golfers of all handicaps.   The course had everything from a short risk/reward par 4, to a longish par 5 that begged the player to go for the green in two.
The fairway bunkers (the majority) are penalizing, but not impossible to make par out of.  I especially liked the way Silva used the nautural hollow on the 14th hole to create a punch-bowl green; one which is very receptive to a 200 yard, up hill, into the wind 3-iron.  
All around (just like Cape Cod National) a must play for anyone in the New England area.

TS
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BZ

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2002, 01:10:00 PM »
Seriously though, Red Tail was very enjoyable to play.  The fairways are very large and forgiving (I need every inch I can get  ;)).  Many of the greens did not have greenside bunkers, which allowed for different options.  The layout is nicely cut through the trees with lots of elevation changes, and is very scenic.  Overall, very nice.

Beware the Stalker  ;)
TP  :-*
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2002, 04:56:03 PM »


It would be one thing to fill in a hollow with sand, but someone actually shaped that bunker to put sand in it (three times!)  :P
Quote
Matt,

As far as I know the Mass. Golf Association has been at Red Tail, but not come up with a rating yet. I did not carry a scorecard with me, so I am not positive about the yardages, but I think 6,700 from the tips sounds right. I believe the web site is redtailgolf.net.

Don,

Does Silva believe in random bunkering? Big time. Look again at the top photo. The first bunker is about 30 yards from the forward tees. Initially, that area was just a hollow that Silva decided to fill with sand.

Anthony
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Anthony Pioppi

Re: Redtail Golf CLub
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2002, 08:04:49 AM »
Ran,

I raved to you about Brian Silva's Red Tail and apparently Ron Whitten agrees. Check out his review on www.golfdigest.com.

TP

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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