Justifying the Par 5: Top 5 reasons

[Mike McGuire]

another reason: match play

The par 5's are usually the stroke holes. The Low capper sometimes has the advantage due to his length....but giving up a shot he may need to make birdie to tie....  par could lose.

[Mike McGuire]

But Mike.....Isn't a 5 that's reachable in two essentially the same as a short 4 that is driveable? Why should we use so much land for the same net option as the short 4?....

Joe

Joe-

The driveable par four is wham-bam-thank you mam. The well laid (sic) out par five is a first date - drinks, dinner and ?

[Eric_Terhorst]

Joe,

good point...par 5's are getting a bit obsolete.

Jeff, I say the top reason, if you're a practicing architect, is: you might have an opportunity to create an opening hole like #1 at Royal County Down or a finishing hole like #18 at Pebble Beach or any hole like {name your favorite par 5}.

Wouldn't you get bored designing nothing but 1- and 2-shotters?

[Joe Hancock]

But Mike.....Isn't a 5 that's reachable in two essentially the same as a short 4 that is driveable? Why should we use so much land for the same net option as the short 4?....

Joe

Joe-

The driveable par four is wham-bam-thank you mam. The well laid (sic) out par five is a first date - drinks, dinner and ?

So, the drive on a 5 is like an opening line....deliver it well and you might score?

[J Sadowsky]

one reason : Options

Par 5's give you a decision- go for the green in two or lay up - and where to lay up is another option.

Par 4's it's usually go for it.  

But Mike.....Isn't a 5 that's reachable in two essentially the same as a short 4 that is driveable? Why should we use so much land for the same net option as the short 4?....

Joe

It's like I'm not even here    

[Mike McGuire]

But Mike.....Isn't a 5 that's reachable in two essentially the same as a short 4 that is driveable? Why should we use so much land for the same net option as the short 4?....

Joe

Joe-

The driveable par four is wham-bam-thank you mam. The well laid (sic) out par five is a first date - drinks, dinner and ?

So, the drive on a 5 is like an opening line....deliver it well and you might score?

yes.. and then the second shot is the dinner. don't do anything stupid and you still have a chance.

[Joe Hancock]

Justin,

You made it too clear what and why the options existed. You didn't leave me any wiggle room.....

Joe

[Joe Hancock]

Mike M.,

It's another thread in waiting, but I suppose a par 3 is like a prom date?

Joe

[Mike McGuire]

Mike M.,

It's another thread in waiting, but I suppose a par 3 is like a prom date?

Joe

The par three is: quote Lyle Lovett

"she's hot to go she's ready, she's hot to go right now"

edit - Or perhaps the par three is like the gorgeous girl you end up next to by chance and she seems somewhat interested. Possibilities - but one shot is all you have.

[Mark_F]

What kind of interesting shot could be had that requires a certain skill, and yet is too unusual to attempt on the important shot to the green?

Would the first shot landing area on a par 5 be a good place for:
steep side hill
fw mogul lies
Need to hit roundhouse hook/slice to second landing area
pop up shot required (trees at 320 yards, like PD 12)
Low stinger below tree branches

What else?

A fairway landing area that slopes down toward trouble, and requires calculating the run on the drive.
A hazard that can only be cleared by using a slope to run the ball around.
A ridge that the tee shot has to stay upon to get a clear look at a green/allow an open approach.
The classic Flynn use of a slope requiring a shot opposite that of the lie in order to hold another slope in the 2nd shot in the landing area.

No offence to you blokes, but I feel cheated if architects don't put as much thought and passion into all types of holes, but especially par fives. They offer three opportunities to test the thinking and shot execution of those playing them.

I don't buy the argument that it is pretty hard to find 500-550 yards of decent terrain to build them on, either. The Sandbelt has a few pretty good flat par fives - Commonwealth's 2nd, made by one of the best greens in golf, KH's 12th, Woodlands 15th.

I haven't seen Pacific Dunes, but from photo's, it looks like Doak managed to build at least three pretty interesting and different tee shot dilemmas onto fairly ordinary looking ground.

And Carnoustie's 6th is one of the great (flat)par fives in golf.

And what better green/green complex is there for a reachable five than Macrihanish's 12th?

[Garland Bayley]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

[JohnH]

Par 5's are great.  One can pull out the driver.....

[JESII]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?


Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

[Garland Bayley]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?



Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

I am so good that I stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the next full shot.

[JESII]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?



Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

I am so good that I stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the next full shot.

Do the full ones count for more than the non-full ones?

[Garland Bayley]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?



Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

I am so good that I stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the next full shot.

Do the full ones count for more than the non-full ones?

No, but I seldom hook or slice the non-full ones.

[JESII]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?



Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

I am so good that I stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the next full shot.

Do the full ones count for more than the non-full ones?

No, but I seldom hook or slice the non-full ones.

All the more reason to actually plan them out...

[Garland Bayley]

Balance.

The par 3s take away a chance to think and determine the best way to position for the next full shot, the par 5s add the chance back.

?



Are you so good that you stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the hole?

I am so good that I stand on the tee of a par three and do not need to consider how to play the next full shot.

Do the full ones count for more than the non-full ones?

No, but I seldom hook or slice the non-full ones.

All the more reason to actually plan them out...

At no point, did I intend to indicate that I don't think you need to plan out the next shot on a par 3. My point was that it is a different calculation when your next shot will be a full swing than when it will be a chip or putt.

[JESII]

We call that check-mate when we get Mucci to change directions like that...

[Garland Bayley]

We call that check-mate when we get Mucci to change directions like that...

I don't get where you think I changed directions, and I for one have never seen Mucci change directions. You must be very talented/persuasive. The best I have seen from Mucci is that he leaves after being checkmated (as does Bobby Fischer, etc.)

[JESII]

I knew putting you in a pot with Mucci would piss you off...


But to the subject at hand...it is my opinion that planning a chip or pitch is more important than planning a full shot because the opportunity to recover is less...and...it the potential savings are a clear full shot where a drive can only leave the potential to save a shot.

thoughts?

[Peter Pallotta]

JES -

my thoughts are that you've played Pine Valley.

Coincidentally, that's something else you have in common with Pat Mucci.....


Peter

 

[Garland Bayley]

Given that many GCAs defend par at the green; e.g. Tom Doak has written those words here, AWT claimed in Gleanings from the Wayside to prefer to bunker and defend at the green, and that fairway bunkering was much less important; clearly more strokes are at stake on the approach to the green, than elsewhere.