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John Sabino

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Friar's Head Pictures
« on: January 15, 2008, 08:12:29 PM »
I had the chance to play Friar's Head this past September on a beautiful day. Was very impressed by the uphill par five 14th and the downhill par four 15th holes, which I thought were the two best on the course with a dramatic walk between the holes.


14th green


walk from the 14th green to the 15th tee


15th hole

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PThomas

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2008, 08:26:44 PM »
esp love the pictures of 15 Joe, thanks for posting
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John Foley

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 09:08:24 PM »
Joe - thanks for the pics - lets see more.
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John Moore II

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2008, 09:21:07 PM »
Very excellent pictures of a great course. Lets see more of them. Forgive me though, where is this club and who designed it?
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Paul Jones

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2008, 09:34:30 PM »
Long Island - Coore and Crenshaw
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 09:35:32 PM by Paul Jones »
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Paul Jones
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Mark Bourgeois

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 09:39:55 PM »
Joe,

Thanks for posting.

I hate those trees in that setting.  The grass looks too green for my tastes to boot.

The blowout bunkers are evocative of linksland and beach, so what's with Sherwood Forest?

The dense deciduous cover doesn't even give us a sense of wind-tortured trees as at places like Kiawah or CPC.

I didn't know trees like that can actually anchor in beach. Shouldn't a bunch of them be knocked over and the view one of creeping deforestation?

IMHO,
Mark

PS Please nail me right-side up and not upside down. I get nosebleeds.
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PThomas

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 09:53:40 PM »
I have to disagree Mark...i think taking out all those trees would be quiet disruptive and unnecessary...lot of critters use that area for habitat i'd bet
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Ed Oden

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 09:58:31 PM »
Joe, I agree with you on both holes.  They were two of my favorites as well.  Here is one we took of 15 on a cold, rainy, windy October day.

Ed    

 
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Mark Bourgeois

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 10:09:31 PM »
Paul,

Then ditch the blowout bunkers and go with a parkland style?

This is what I see:
Trees = parkland
Greeny-green grass = parkland
Bunkers = linksland

Personally / IMHO I can't see how these bunkers are congruent with trees that are closely packed, deciduous, AND close to the holes.

Maybe I just haven't been exposed to enough courses with a look like this.  Do you know of other examples where this look works?

Mark
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 10:11:08 PM »
Mark,

Pine Valley?   ;)

Kalen

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Bill_McBride

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 10:13:50 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 15, 2008, 10:09:31 PM
Paul,

Then ditch the blowout bunkers and go with a parkland style?

This is what I see:
Trees = parkland
Greeny-green grass = parkland
Bunkers = linksland

Personally / IMHO I can't see how these bunkers are congruent with trees that are closely packed, deciduous, AND close to the holes.

Maybe I just haven't been exposed to enough courses with a look like this.  Do you know of other examples where this look works?

Mark

Cypress Point and Bandon Trails both go into and out of sandy waste areas and forest.  The changing environments really keep your attention.  

At Friars Head it was the same thing.  Start in the dunes, enter the forest, head down into the big plain, then back up into the forest and dunes.  It looks a lot better than it photographs, perhaps.
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Michael Dugger

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 10:16:07 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 15, 2008, 10:09:31 PM
Paul,

Then ditch the blowout bunkers and go with a parkland style?

This is what I see:
Trees = parkland
Greeny-green grass = parkland
Bunkers = linksland

Personally / IMHO I can't see how these bunkers are congruent with trees that are closely packed, deciduous, AND close to the holes.

Maybe I just haven't been exposed to enough courses with a look like this.  Do you know of other examples where this look works?


Ah, are you serious?

Are you basing this opinion on like the two pictures we see here?

Perhaps having bunkers "congruent" with the rest of the property supercedes this one hole (15)

Regarding the grass, again, are you serious?  Maybe Joseph Rigo photoshopped the grass all uber green.  It sure looks awfully perfect to me.

Friars Head is freaking awesome
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Jerry Kluger

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 10:16:41 PM »
Mark:  The sand dunes and the trees were there - why is it necessary to destroy one just because of the other?
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Joe Hancock

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 10:20:51 PM »
I'd bet there's been no Photoshop-ing. Superintendents(not all, but too many) have developed a bad habit of "burning in" the striping. It involves using the same mowing pattern for multiple consecutive mowings.

This pattern is mown towards the green on the left side of the fairway, and back towards the tee on the right side.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 10:21:31 PM by Joe Hancock »
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Ryan Farrow

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 10:40:26 PM »


or

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James Bennett

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 10:41:45 PM »
Joe

in the southern hemisphere, we have exactly the opposite striping.  Mow towards the green on the right and away from the green on the left.  The corolois effect must have an effect on the mower driver's brain.

Or the steering wheel.  Or I am kidding.  
One of the above.  :D

James B
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K. Krahenbuhl

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2008, 11:31:19 PM »
Quote from: Ryan Farrow on January 15, 2008, 10:40:26 PM


or



Ryan,

In this instance I would go a step further and remove the trees to the right of the green as well.
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M. Shea Sweeney

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2008, 11:49:53 PM »
Quote from: Mark Bourgeois on January 15, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Joe,

Thanks for posting.

I hate those trees in that setting.  The grass looks too green for my tastes to boot.

The blowout bunkers are evocative of linksland and beach, so what's with Sherwood Forest?

The dense deciduous cover doesn't even give us a sense of wind-tortured trees as at places like Kiawah or CPC.

I didn't know trees like that can actually anchor in beach. Shouldn't a bunch of them be knocked over and the view one of creeping deforestation?

IMHO,
Mark

PS Please nail me right-side up and not upside down. I get nosebleeds.

Mark Bourgeois,

I am not a big fan of Friars Head---however for different reasons.

With that said, you say you don't like those trees in that setting, however that IS the setting. That IS the east end of Long Island. So I applaud  Coore and Crenshaw for involing the trees in the design what I feel is properly.


Also, I am pretty sure that Friars Head had some serious environmental restrictions when building the course, so that may explain why more trees weren't removed during construction. The North Fork of Long Island is a cool place that is trying very hard not to be destroyed.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 12:12:01 AM by M. Shea Sweeney »
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RJ_Daley

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 12:10:11 AM »
Ryan, nice photoshopping.  I'll vote for the second one.  But, I wonder if those trees behind aren't useful to restrain bank-cliff sloughing off down into the drink.  I don't think the environmentalists would go for the de-treeing, no matter how much golf design sense it would make in certain areas.  I think the developer had to make some very strong assurances to the 'e' groups about certain future maintenance and preservation of the agreed upon state and condition of the land post golf course construction.  
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2008, 05:40:11 AM »
The trees and the dunes and sand in that area along the north ridge is the way that land was and looked before the course and it's the way it should be, in my opinion.

Ken Bakst, if you read this thread---seeing some of the remarks on here---I'm so glad you're the czar of that place. Here's hoping you have a very long life and even longer czarship and that you never let dumb opinions or committees have anything to do with that place.

The suggestion that one alternative for Friars Head could be as a "parkland" style course just could be the dumbest remark I've seen in my nine years on this website.

But everyone has an opinion, I guess, and a right to it. It's a "Big World" out there. I just hope "Big World" opinions never get anywhere near Friars Head!  ;)
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Mike Sweeney

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2008, 06:50:16 AM »
Joe has a full review up on his blog on FH, and I do enjoy his as a comparison to Ran's. Last time I was there in May the clubhouse did not look as big as it does in his picture. Joe if FH brings a Gatsby comparison, how about National's?

Ran's review is very well written including a before picture of the dunes. It answers many of the questions here.

I personally love how FH weaves from dunes to trees to farmland. Locals LI National and Laurel Links do it to lesser degree on flatter farm and tree land (no dunes).

Closest course on The Island would be Piping Rock which has a bunch of different looks too, if you eliminate the bunkering comparisons.
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TEPaul

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2008, 07:00:54 AM »
Mike Sweeney:

What "style" of golf course would you describe Piping Rock?

I don't believe I'd call it a classic "parkland" course. If you want to see a real "parkland" golf course setting it would be the first five holes of The Creek. That area was in fact designed as a classic "parkland" estate with all the usual accourterments previous to the formation and creation of The Creek Club.
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Anthony_Nysse

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2008, 07:24:04 AM »
Kyle,
 The problem with the tree removal behind the #15th green at FH is that the dunes behind the green would cover that green in just a couple years. When I was helping build the course, the great big dune that is to the right of the green, the same on that #16 tee sits on, was already moving several feet a year. The instant gradification of the view would be a nitemare in the end.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Mike Sweeney

Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2008, 07:37:56 AM »
Quote from: TEPaul on January 16, 2008, 07:00:54 AM
Mike Sweeney:

What "style" of golf course would you describe Piping Rock?

I don't believe I'd call it a classic "parkland" course. If you want to see a real "parkland" golf course setting it would be the first five holes of The Creek. That area was in fact designed as a classic "parkland" estate with all the usual accourterments previous to the formation and creation of The Creek Club.



I would classify it as "Unique" along with Friars Head. You can't call the above parkland. How do you classify Merion? By the way since you grew up there I disqualify all your views of PR. You don't appreciate it enough!

PS. If Tommy were still moderator, I don't think Joe would make it through lunch with his FH views!
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PThomas

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Re:Friar's Head Pictures
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2008, 07:59:53 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on January 15, 2008, 10:16:41 PM
Mark:  The sand dunes and the trees were there - why is it necessary to destroy one just because of the other?

well said Jerry
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!
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