new Davis Love course in NC

[PThomas]

see Brad's review....sounds like another course on the "must play" list

http://www.golfweek.com/lifestyles/resortreport/story/irishcreek_feature_011308

[John Moore II]

The course does sound very interesting, but I am not certain what I think of Love's work just yet. Perhaps with time we can tell if he is a good architect.

[PThomas]

The course does sound very interesting, but I am not certain what I think of Love's work just yet. Perhaps with time we can tell if he is a good architect.

notable that Brad gave the greens and surrrounds a 10

[K. Krahenbuhl]

The course does sound very interesting, but I am not certain what I think of Love's work just yet. Perhaps with time we can tell if he is a good architect.

notable that Brad gave the greens and surrrounds a 10

Paul,

That was the first thing that I noticed as well.  I would love to see some more pictures.

[Brad Klein]

Where's Paul Cowley when we need him? I thought the greens were amazingly well done and wish I could post the photos I have. Could have stood all day over 2-3-4-5 admiring them.

[John Moore II]

I must admit that I didn't scroll down the page that far. I am still unconvinced about his architecture though. I seem to recall Anderson Creek near Pinehurst as being quite average. I would like to play this new course though to see if I like it any better.

[Ryan Farrow]

Paul, Kyle,

that jumped out at me as well, can't get much better than a 10/10. I don't know how many courses can claim that. Pretty bold on someones part ehh.

[J_McKenzie]

Brad,

Paul's been working down in Cabo.  We've got something pretty special going on there.  Thanks for kind remarks.

Here's a few green shots from Irish Creek taken by Larry Lambrecht:

Irish Creek #2, ridge visible in the back is the key design feature and demands that the approach on this short par-4 be on the pin side of the green.  


Irish Creek #4, semi-blind uphill approach to a "connected double-plateau" green.  The front center of the green is somewhat of a bowl.


Irish Creek #5, fun, drivable par-4 that requires a tee shot coming in hard from the right.  Anything short or to the left is a tough up and down.  Probably more bogeys or others than birdies.


Irish Creek #7, downhill, mid to short iron approach where long is beautiful to look at, but absolutely no good from a playing standpoint.


Irish Creek, although a redesign, is basically a brand new golf course and all of the work was completed in approximately 10 months.  The superintendent has done a great job with the grow-in and it should only get better with more time to mature.

[Joe Hancock]

Fine looking work there, gents. I particularly like the "not unnecessarily complicated" look. Clean, elegant...nice.


Thanks for the picture posting.

Joe

[A.G._Crockett]

I must admit that I didn't scroll down the page that far. I am still unconvinced about his architecture though. I seem to recall Anderson Creek near Pinehurst as being quite average. I would like to play this new course though to see if I like it any better.

I haven't seen Anderson Creek, but if you have seen the Love Course at Barefoot Landing, or Kinderlou Forest in Valdosta, GA, (among others from the Love organization) you HAVE to give those pretty high marks, no?

[Peter Pallotta]

What Joe said, and my thanks too.

"Not unneccessarily complicated" seems to me to sum up the goal perfectly, and across the board, i.e. whether you're in the mountains or the prairies or some northeast woodlands.

Peter  

[tlavin]

Very understated and easy on the eyes.

[paul cowley]

Thanks Brad and you other gents for the kind comments....and I can only really add a small understatement about the fine photos because they are all that I have seen of the finished product.
Although I was very involved with the routing and construction drawings, I have been engaged  elsewhere....Savannah, Cabo and Delaware to be exact, and have yet to make it by to see the finished course.

The Love brothers and Bob Spence get all the credit for what you see and play [contrary to what you might think, we don't necessarily follow our plans , preferring instead to spend the time it takes to get things right while in the field].......and I also want to add that the gc contractor, Course Doctors, under the leadership of Jim Sparks, did an outstanding job as well.

Pictures rarely do golf courses justice, but these make me anxious to get up there.

[Kyle Henderson]

The Preserve at Jordan Lake is my only Love Design experience. Did you have a hand in that one Mr. Cowley? (I'm very eager to see what comes from your new partnership with Mr. Fezler. ) I found it to be a very engaging course that requires one's full attention on every shot and the land has a lot of good movement -- maybe a bit too steep in places but still preferred to flat and featureless territory.

Definitely traget golf however and I wouldn't want to be a high-handicapper there. Lots of precise lay ups and forced carries are required.  Irish Creek seems a little more user friendly for the novice in pictures. Is that an accurate characterization?

[Dunlop_White]

John MacKenzie,

Hope all is well? I haven't seen Irish Creek or Brunswick yet, but look forward to visiting both. Thanks for always updating us with photos!

[J Sadowsky]

I like the bunker work.  It's understated but penal.

[John Kirk]

Bump.

Fine looking pictures.  I get excited about good new courses.  Congrats, Paul.

[Ed Oden]

I played The Club at Irish Creek today.  Brad Klein's review is dead on the money.  This is a very impressive course.  The greens are loaded with all kinds of interesting movements.  Recovery shots from around the greens are both fun and demanding.  And I really liked the bunkers.  They are visually striking, stategically in play and challenging to play from.  It helps if you can work the ball both ways, especially on approach shots in order to avoid the deep greenside bunkers.  But every hole accepts a running shot if desired.  While the back nine is substantially longer than the front, they are consistent in character, if not length.  The par 5s are all reachable with 2 very good shots.  And the par 4s have a terrific mix, from long and demanding to drivable and quirky.  The course was also in amazingly good condition for its young age.  My only complaints are that three of the par 3s played to approximately the same club and the least appealing seemed to me to be the 18th.  But all in all, this is a place I would highly recommend to anyone with a chance to play it.

Ed

[Forrest Richardson]

Mr. Moore — When Brad writes (in his opening sentence, by the way), "By the second green, you can tell that designer Davis Love III and his associates have created something interesting..." did you take this to task and decide to immediately not find much in the description? I came away wanting to see it and thought it did sound pretty intriguing.
 

[Tom_Doak]

The quote I found most interesting was this one:

"worked closely with construction firm Course Doctors to preserve native contours and move only 300,000 cubic yards of earth. "

If there was any earthmoving done on the holes in the pictures, I can't find it.  But it does make me wonder where they moved their 300,000 cubic yards.  Were there a couple of holes with massive changes (as at our Tumble Creek), or were the changes more subtle over the entire site?  If it's the latter, then there can't be that many native contours preserved.

[Ed Oden]

The quote I found most interesting was this one:

"worked closely with construction firm Course Doctors to preserve native contours and move only 300,000 cubic yards of earth. "

If there was any earthmoving done on the holes in the pictures, I can't find it.  But it does make me wonder where they moved their 300,000 cubic yards.  Were there a couple of holes with massive changes (as at our Tumble Creek), or were the changes more subtle over the entire site?  If it's the latter, then there can't be that many native contours preserved.

Tom:

The holes in the pictures are very close to the old design in terms of routing (although I believe #2 was reversed).  On the back nine, however, 4 or 5 of the old holes were abandoned and new holes cut through adjacent woods.  I'd guess that most of the earthmoving occurred there.

Ed 

[paul cowley]

The quote I found most interesting was this one:

"worked closely with construction firm Course Doctors to preserve native contours and move only 300,000 cubic yards of earth. "

If there was any earthmoving done on the holes in the pictures, I can't find it.  But it does make me wonder where they moved their 300,000 cubic yards.  Were there a couple of holes with massive changes (as at our Tumble Creek), or were the changes more subtle over the entire site?  If it's the latter, then there can't be that many native contours preserved.

Tom....nobody really knows this, but we base our design fee on a per yard basis....we try to get around $5, but we can work around that number if nessessary.

The Front didn't require much dirt movement, so we tried to make it up on the Back.....#11 and #12 were good side hill cuts for us that really helped to make payroll....but overall I don't think we really moved, or shoved, or pushed, or loaded, more than about 150,000 yds or so!....but Tom, you are right with your observation, as we were quite minimal in areas that didn't require more than just shaping in place and balancing the small cuts and fills..

P.S.....for all ya'll that don't know me....part of the above has been a joke.....my first since early Feb.....watch out Hancock

[Ed Oden]

Paul:

What happened to the old holes that were abandoned?  Are they still there or used for something else?

[Mike Hendren]

Based upon my play of Forest Oaks in Greensboro, I look forward to great things from this firm.  They did a stellar job with what I'm guessing was a tired Ellis Maples housing tract at FO with stellar, dramatic internal greens contouring. 

I should also add that the pushed up figure-eight green at the Origins Course's 8th hole is a real cutey.

[J_McKenzie]

Ed,

It was good to read your comments, glad you enjoyed the course.  I was there last Thursday, but work and weather conspired against me playing.  The course looked great, especially considering the winter conditions.  The superintendent, Artie Helton, has done a heck of a job with the grow-in and day to day maintenance.  The course should only get better with more time to mature, the fescue roughs still have a ways to go to completely fill in.  Hopefully, a good spring season will do the trick.

The holes that were completely abandoned were holes #3-5 that were along a finger of Kannapolis lake and the par-3 8th hole.  These holes were all fairly weak and we wanted to pick up additional yardage for the course, so we created four new holes- #10-13.  The bonus for the development is that holes #3-5 along the lake will now be real estate, along with the area that is currently the maintenance facility.

Tom,

Ed is correct that most of the earthmoving occurred on the four new holes that were routed along the top of a hill.  Those holes required a good bit of cut and fill.  We also moved a little bit of dirt on the front nine to remedy a couple of blind areas that were safety hazards and to help with drainage.  We also introduced some great new view lines to the lake in the process.

John