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TEPaul

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2008, 08:27:34 AM »
A thread about the case for a return of geometric architecture is not a bad one but when it devolves into an argument about tangents and sticking to some point for about a page, it's a bad one, in my opinion.

Patrick:

You asked me a fairly fundamental comparative question on the first page and I think I gave you a pretty good answer in post #34. Why don't you respond to it? Why didn't you respond to it? A response to a question you asked is no tangent. ;)

If you like geometric architecture, as you say you do, and you want to make a case for the return of it, and you don't really want to hear some of the potentially diverse opinions of others on the subject, then maybe you should just write an "In My Opinion" piece on the subject and submit it to Ran Morrissett so he can put it in the "In My Opinion" section instead of in this section which generally evokes various responses.

If you want to completely manage and limit peoples' responses you probably shouldn't post threads on this discussion group essentially asking for the opinions of others. ;)

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2008, 01:24:57 PM »
If "golf" is a game, conducted upon a field of play, with the object being, to get the ball from Point A to Point B in as few strokes as possible, with the architects mission being the alteration of the field of play with the intent of creating a challenge that's interesting and fun, shouldn't the features structured by the architect to thwart the golfers pursuit be primarily functional, without undo regard for form ?

If so, doesn't this make a strong case for the return of geometric architecture ?


Pat, there are a lot of tangents in this thread - interesting ones too. And without them this argument you propose, which starts the thread with the predicating word "IF", would be prime for ridicule.  Is it worded that way to help us align answers to that syntacticly herded answer of agreeing?
 I think you're attempting an extremely nonintuitive view in the hope that we will galvanize our own beliefs in naturalness. I commend you.

Again, the "IF" in this equation attempts to suspend stalwart personal beliefs, but I don't agree with the premise.

 My answer is NO to the advent of geometrical shapes.

 The object (goal) may be to get from A to B in least amount of strokes, but it is not the subject (journey).

« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 01:30:09 PM by Slag Bandoon »
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2008, 02:57:43 PM »

LAnd, since I started this thread, I'm the one best qualified to context what I was referencing.



You do this type of thing again and again and this certainly isn't your worst offense.

Lloyd, you do this type of thing again and again, you divert and/or attempt to dilute my threads.
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Actually I was trying to make it less one dimensional. If you start a thread with a premise, ask for discussion but all you really want is for your idea to be accepted or refuted it can make for a dull read. What did you expect with your gambit on this one? That Wayne would say - Oh, now I see?
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Asking for a discussion "ON TOPIC" was the purpose of the thread.  The title of the thread was quite specific, referenced "A RETURN TO GEOMETRIC ARCHITECTURE", not to nuveau geometric architecture.

My fault was assuming that "reading comprehension" was a requirement to gaining access to this site.
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In your own words, you admited that you were taking the thread on a tangent.
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Some of the most interesting reading has been from tangents. The most interesting discussion I've ever been involved in on this site was just on a tangent off of a tangent. You want to discourage this?
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In this thread, YES.
I was very specific in the thread's title.
I wanted to discuss "GEOMETRIC ARCHITECTURE" as it previously existed, hence, the word, "RETURN".

I didn't want the thread diverted or hijacked, something you seem to favor.
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You start a thread to talk about an idea you have, the idea is so well formed in your head that you forget to explain the whole thing to the rest of us.

I don't have the time to type a treatise for the obtuse.

Wayne and others new exactly what I meant.
I suspect you did to, especiallyAFTER Wayne posted the picture of Bendelow's work.
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See above.
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DITTO
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You start with a fairly open sounding intial post, and then when the conversation goes in directions or tangents that you don't expect, or don't care for (like today) you cry foul, and you gradually narrow the context until it matches your mindset.

It's not crying foul, it's trying to keep the thread on topic and not have it go off on tangents, which is what you continually try to do.
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The logic of my tangent was that is would be possible for someone who found the MacRaynor functional design distasteful to the eye to find other geometrical designs pleasing to the eye, so that it is not necessarily the geometrical aspect of the design that is offensive.

From the perspective of an angular aerial, of a golf hole you've never seen [size=4x] ?[/size]  A view that NO golfer will ever see while playing the hole.  If someone finds MacRaynor's functional designs distasteful, they usually do so based on walking or playing the course, not from a balloon ride.

Who are you trying to kid ?


I'm not trying to kid anyone. You don't need to be a genius to see that this architecture I reference is some kind of geometric design.
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You don't know that unless you view the area from ground level.
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There is  absolutely no need to go to Hilton Head to check this. You've made this argument in the past - that one must have seen a course in person to comment on it.
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Of course you do.

You don't have any concept of what that hole and those features look like from the golfer's eyes, the ONLY eyes that matter.  The architect intended the feature to be within the field of play and to be observed by the golfer as he approached the feature, not from an angular aerial photo.

You couldn't even tell if those features, and the lines that comprise those features are observable to the golfer.  They might blend into one monochromatic view of an elevation, a mound without elevation differentials and definition.
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It's not always the case. But you always fall back on the argument.
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There's a reason for that.   IT'S A VALID ARGUEMENT.
Charles Blair MacDonald thought the same way and set pen to paper to memorialize that arguement.  Tom Doak made essentially the same statement years ago.

You, on the other hand, prefer to define and comment on a feature that you've never seen, you've neither walked or played the golf course.  You've NEVER seen the feature as it manifests itself to the golfer, yet, you offer your expert opinion on how the feature/s presents itself.[/b][/color]


It makes you look lazy.
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Like a fox.
You should be so crazy.
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Sorry to have to explain this to you. I thought it was obvious. Tangents are natural and often rewarding in open conversation.

Let's see, you've never walked the hole pictured, let alone played it, yet, your insisting that an aerial view is so representative of what the "golfer" sees, that he'd label those fairway/rough shapes as geometric architecture.  That's some leap of faith/ignorance.
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Get your own thread is not an acceptable, or workable respsonse.

Your response is neither fact based nor founded on a personal observation of the actual hole.  I'd call that an unfounded/unworkable response.
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Of course you would.
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Agreed.

And you would rather divert and hijack the thread with your erroneous ideas about the focus, intent and direction of the thread, a thread that I formulated
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Let me make this clear, in these threads I refer to I'm sure you feel that certain folk aren't getting in and that you're wasting your time having to narrow the focus. You could look at it that way. You could also consider that it might in fact be you who is wasting the time of those of us who cannot consistently read your mind.

You can categorize your being obtuse any way you want.


You are dearly loved here but you are not the sheriff.

Lloyd, what is the "title" of this thread ?

A "return" to .....

Would you say that the features represented in the angular aerial you posted, are something commonly found in the style of architecture deemed, "geometric" ?

No, they're not.
You were going off on a tangent that I felt would divert and dilute the thread, hence, my response.  
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You were playing sheriff again. If you'd like me to not read any of your threads anymore, I guess I could do that. But if you want me to read them, as I do, you should accept that I might come up with something worth considering now and then.
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Agreed in some cases, but, this isn't one of those cases.
You were off base.
The title clearly established the perameters of the discussion.
You chose to go off on a tangent.
I rejected your tangent as not germane because it would essentially act to divert/hijack the subject I intended to be discussed.
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Even if you don't, some do. You bring a unique voice and body of knowledge to the site, so do I (albeit my body of knowledge is smaller). If you don't think my comments are worthy, ignore them. That's what I've started doing in similar circumstances.
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I was trying to get to a specific point in terms of the challenge offered today, by today's features, versus the challenge offered decades ago, when equipment was less adept at extricating balls from hazards, and your example doesn't address the theme.
It detracts from and diverts it.
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I almost forgot this :)


Ditto  ;D
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How do you do this colour switching thing without it taking all night. Are you an ace typist or do you have scripts for the tags?
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At first it's difficult because you miss the defining prompts, but, as you do it more and more, you learn how to end one color and begin another.  It's more a matter of diligence than time, however, it can be very time consuming if you miss the prompts.
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Now let's get back to geometric architecture as Wayno understands it.
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Wayno,

Why are you so opposed to flat bottomed bunkers when they present more of a challenge than bunkers sloped up toward the green ?
:) :) :) :)

John Moore II

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2008, 03:07:19 PM »
OK-whatever that multicolored thing is right above this post is the hardest thing I have ever tried to read, I can't even remember who said what. Anyway.
--I seem to recall from a geometry class that many things are geometric in nature. Squares, Rectangles, Cones, Cylinders, circles, triangles, cubes and others. Wouldn't using anything of this type be geometric? Using anything that has a regular form? I think it might be handy to have a square green surrounded by Pyramid mounding and truncated cone bunkers. Very nice indeed. Is that not geometric architecture? Those angles in the fairway are essentially pyramids with triangular bases rather than rectangular bases. Its the same thing.

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2008, 03:56:47 PM »
OK-whatever that multicolored thing is right above this post is the hardest thing I have ever tried to read, I can't even remember who said what.

Johnny

You'll get used to Pat's threads. They're often like this. If anyone chooses to respond in a manner that is beyond that which his imagination allowed him to predict he gets huffy.
He's alright really, and so am I. Note smiley faces.

What he does is - he takes your response, and chops it up, responding to your points in green ink. Always green.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_ink

So if your reply was in black, his response post will be black and green, the green being all Pat, the black being your points he disputes, or agrees with. If you want to challenge his response, one point at a time, you either quote and then cut all but the point you want to address, respond, post and then do the same for all of his points that you contend. That is one post for every point. That would take forever. Instead, what most do is follow Pat's lead and make a second coloured, response.

In this example you'll see I responded to Pat's green in blue, to differentiate my new remarks (blue) from the original ones (black).
After this Pat could have continued in green and I in blue and all you'd need to do is keep your eye open for the black type - that would let you know when a different point was being addressed.


wsmorrison

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2008, 04:10:31 PM »
Alright, that's it.  Tom Paul and I will play a match against Pat and Lloyd.  While the Bickersons are at it in dueling tangential debates, Tom and I will sneak through with the upset victory.  Since there hasn't been any geometric architecture in Philadelphia for 80 or 90 years, thank God and great architects, I insist it takes place down here  ;D

We can drink our victory wine at Featherfield Farm.  Since Tom only has the good stuff and doesn't drink swill anymore (thank you Jamie for introducing us to Luca Mazzotti), he can supply the vino.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 04:12:55 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2008, 04:18:53 PM »
Alright, that's it.  Tom Paul and I will play a match against Pat and Lloyd.  While the Bickersons are at it in dueling tangential debates, Tom and I will sneak through with the upset victory.  Since there hasn't been any geometric architecture in Philadelphia for 80 or 90 years, thank God and great architects, I insist it takes place down here  ;D

We can drink our victory wine at Featherfield Farm.  Since Tom only has the good stuff and doesn't drink swill anymore (thank you Jamie for introducing us to Luca Mazzotti), he can supply the vino.

Given that Pat has already classified me obtuse as a poster, imagine his horror at being asked to captain the leaking ship that is my golf game - as Capt Kurtz said -  'The Horror. The Horror!' ;D
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 04:19:41 PM by Lloyd_Cole »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2008, 04:20:08 PM »
Johnny M,

Color coding makes it easier to follow who said what and the sequence of the replies.  However, if you're chromatically challenged, it can be difficult.

As to Geometric architecture, GCGC has a good deal of it that remains intact today.

It's highly effective and attractive in its setting.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to post some early and current pictures of GCGC in the next month or two.  Those who've wandered around the clubhouse and seen the many photos  hanging on the wall can attest to its use and look.

I suspect that you and others haven't seen examples of geometric architecture other than extreme examples.
The geometric architecture found at GCGC is quite attractive.

Sadly, one of the great holes in golf, that no longer exists, the 12th at GCGC was a good example of geometric architecture with deep semi-circular bunkers protecting the front and rear of the green and pyramid like mounds within the putting surface protecting the flanks.

Perhaps Tommy Naccarato or another technically adept participant can post pictures of the old 12th green.
Again, I'm hoping that I'll be able to post some old photos in the spring.   They're very interesting.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2008, 04:28:15 PM »
Alright, that's it.  Tom Paul and I will play a match against Pat and Lloyd.  While the Bickersons are at it in dueling tangential debates, Tom and I will sneak through with the upset victory.  Since there hasn't been any geometric architecture in Philadelphia for 80 or 90 years, thank God and great architects, I insist it takes place down here  ;D

We can drink our victory wine at Featherfield Farm.  Since Tom only has the good stuff and doesn't drink swill anymore (thank you Jamie for introducing us to Luca Mazzotti), he can supply the vino.

Given that Pat has already classified me obtuse as a poster, imagine his horror at being asked to captain the leaking ship that is my golf game - as Capt Kurtz said -  'The Horror. The Horror!' ;D

Lloyd,

As Mike Sweeney, Bob Huntley and others can attest I may hold the curative instructions that would enable you to salvage your game.

As to a match against Wayno & TEPaul we'd win before leaving the first tee.

All you need to do is ask me, "why do you think Raynor and Banks produced better features and courses than Flynn ?

Irrespective of my response, Wayno will become catatonic and TEPaul will begin speaking in tongues, both only recovering after we fill our victory cups with our favorite beverages while emptying out their wallets.

It'll be like dueling with the unarmed. ;D

 

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2008, 04:30:00 PM »
Pat
I'd love to see the photos.
I've only been round GCGC once, so my impressions are extremely 'impressionistic'. You may or may not be amused to hear that it is my favourite American club that I've visited so far... It's maybe a good thing that I have no money and I don't live in New York anymore.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2008, 04:47:35 PM »
"I don't buy that.

Could you cite some courses in the Northeast where DEEP bunkers look very natural?"

Patrick:

Are you kidding?

Of course I can cite you some courses in the Northeast where deep bunkers look natural or certainly more natural looking than Raynor bunkers and certainly more natural than that truly geometric stuff.

Well ........ we're waiting.
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That's basically the point here or Wayne's point. If you're trying to say that those bunkers on other courses look so natural that a good architectural eye wouldn't know they were made, that's another matter.

My point is that other than a limited number of sites, bunkers aren't inherently natural looking.
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Again, Wayne's question is why Raynor never tried to make his bunkers looks as natural as others of his contemporaries did.

Wayne's question is flawed because it implies a false conclusion, similar to the question, "when did you stop beating your wife and kids".

Raynor and Banks created bunkers on many courses that would fit your "natural looking" bunker test.
I suspect that neither you or Wayne have visited those courses
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Most of the courses in this area for starters have them, not everywhere for obvious reasons but certainly on some holes on courses that have good topography.

Could you name them so I can establish a point of reference.
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Those deep bunkers are generally found on the low sides of holes, particularly greens, on those courses where greens and such are on natural grade slopes and many of the old courses around here have them.

Wouldn't that create a drainage problem ?
Wouldn't it make more sense to find them on the HIGH side of holes/greens where enhanced drainage can be achieved ?
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In some cases I'm talking 10-12 plus feet deep to clear that tops of them. For example, the height to clear the top of the bunker to the right of Park's #9 green at Maidstone just may be as high and steep as I've ever seen.

TE, I specifically exempted seaside courses, and you proceed to cite Maidstone as a good example.

Please read, then think, BEFORE you type. ;D
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I was always a good bunker player who had a 60 degree wedge way back and even I sometimes struggled to get the ball over that one.

Obviously anyone with an architectural eye could tell that the greens on some of those natural slopes are generally leveled into the natural fall and this essentially creates that bunker depth but the point is due to a number of aesthetic factors those bunkers were intentionally made to look more natural than Raynor bunkers of the same ilk.

Please reread my comment about seaside sites.
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And don't try to give me some BS excuse that this isn't true because it just is true and anyone with have an architectural eye can recognize it.

Then you must have heard about it from a third party. ;D
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Again, it's not a question of how natural some of these bunkers look, it's a question of how much more natural they look compared to comparable Raynor bunkers or bunkers that were apparently built to look engineered or even geometric!

There you go again, using a faulty conclusion as the foundation for your premise.

Are the bunkers at Westhampton engineered looking ?
Geometric looking ?
Or, Natural looking ?
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But, hey, just remember, I'm not Wayne and I'm not saying I hate the engineered look but I'm not saying I really love it either like I generally do a far more naturalized look in architecture.

How do you feel about a bunker's functionality, it's ability to be a substantive factor in the golfer's play and THINKING ?
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As for the true geometric look of some of those late 19th and early 20th century courses that stuff is more of a curiosity in the evolution of golf course architecture to me.

Don't forget that many of the pictures you see are extreme examples of Geometric architecture.

GCGC and Chicago GC have Geometric architecture that is both pleasing, effective and challenging.
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If you love or even like that truly geometric look, you can have it pal----it's a "Big World" out there in golf and architecture and there really is room in it for everyone!  ;)

You love GCGC, don't you find the geometric architecture that's there now, and that was there long ago, very pleasing, very effective, very challenging ?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2008, 04:54:15 PM »
Lloyd Cole,

The photos are stunning.

They're crisp, sharp and highly revealing when it comes to depicting the features and hazards that make GCGC so special.

If you'll visit Google Earth you can see some of the square and rectangular bunkers quite clearly.

On some holes, like # 3 you can't see the long rectangular, right side fairway bunker and the long rectangular abandoned right side fairway bunker on # 7.  # 11 has a great square bunker, and the old photos of # 14 reveal another great square bunker fronting the green.

As soon as I obtain digitized photos I'll have them posted.

TEPaul

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2008, 06:38:21 PM »
"Could you name them so I can establish a point of reference."

GMGC, Merion, Pine Valley, Philly CC, HVGC, Whitemarsh, Sunnybrook, Shinnecock, Myopia, Torresdale, LuLu, Riverton and these are just the ones I've played relatively recently for me. How many more do you want?

I just removed Maidstone.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:50:50 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2008, 06:49:36 PM »
"Are the bunkers at Westhampton engineered looking ?
Geometric looking ?
Or, Natural looking ?"

I think the bunkers at Westhampton are engineered looking.


"You love GCGC, don't you find the geometric architecture that's there now, and that was there long ago, very pleasing, very effective, very challenging?"

I do love GCGC but I would not describe the architecture of GCGC as geometric, no matter how you choose to describe it. To me its architecture is just very old fashioned looking in style with a sunken bunker style and a lot of natural grade greens which I really love. To me something like the latter is about as natural looking as it gets because IT IS about as natural as you can get in green architecture!

And furthermore, I am not criticizing engineered looking architecture but that doesn't mean to me that Wayne Morrison's questions and points aren't legitimate ones.

I only responded to those points and questions in your last post because in my opinion they're the only ones worth responding to.  ;)


Patrick_Mucci

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2008, 07:41:17 PM »
TEPaul,

You can't deny that the long rectangular trench bunkers on
# 3 and # 7, the rectangular cross bunkers on
# 10 and # 15, along with the large square bunkers on # 9 and # 11 are perfect examples of "geometric" architecture.

Perhaps you were looking at the water tower and approaching aircraft as you wandered the grounds searching for Coorshaw.

Could you tell me how the bunkers on # 4, # 5, # 8, # 9 and # 17 at Westhampton are "engineered" looking ?

We'll discuss the other holes later.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 07:43:49 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

TEPaul

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2008, 11:01:26 AM »
"You can't deny that the long rectangular trench bunkers on
# 3 and # 7, the rectangular cross bunkers on
# 10 and # 15, along with the large square bunkers on # 9 and # 11 are perfect examples of "geometric" architecture."

Patrick:

I both can deny it and I do deny it, at least to a very large degree in the context of the evolution in styles in golf architecture in combination with the common and commonsensical use of those terms (particularly contemporaneously).

Apparently you seem to be laboring under the impression that golf course architecture of that early time of GCGC, since it does have some sunken bunkers and such that are rectilinear in shape, is a perfect or even mildly representative example of "geometric" architecture and what was meant by that and that term around the turn of the century.

I do not believe that and I do not subscribe to such a simple theory and belief.

I would describe the look of some of the sunken bunkers of GCGC and other features in architecture of the late 19th century the way those features were described back then and later. The term "steeplechase" architecture and style was commonly and correctly used in my opinion.

Are there rectilinear lines used in the water and sand jumps of steeplechasing? Of course there are and much of those golf architecture features of that time were a replication of that if not often an actual "borrowing" of preexisting steeplechase jump features.

But what was termed "geometric" architecture around the turn of the century and in the first decade of the 20th century was more than that---much more. Those courses and that style almost invariably used ALL or most of the generally used shapes and forms found in geometry---eg cubes and cones and pentagons and pyramidical shapes and so forth. And all those geometric shapes were used in combination on those geometric courses and most all of them were remarkably cleaned line and exact for earthen and grass forms.

A very representative example of true "geometric" golf architecture in the context of what I said above is the photograph Wayne posted in post #22.

The National School was not that and it only basically got into the rectilinear type line because, in my opinion, that is much of what was found in the Scottish linksland with MAN MADE features on those courses at that early time. One sees almost none of all the other shapes and forms in geometry in the old linksland man-made architecture as one does see in true examples of what was known back then as "geometric" architecture.

I don't think anything artistic at all was intended with those early man-made linksland features---they were generally just functional to support something and/or to prevent it from falling apart.

But the "geometric" era of architecture WAS an early attempt at art and artistry in architecture. It's just that it used as its model geometry and most all of geometry's shapes and forms in combination which is not the shapes and forms found much at all in naturally occuring land and its forms.

So, no, I believe even if some of the bunkers of GCGC were rectilinear I do not see that they were attempts at dedicated geometrics as the "geometric" era and style in architecture most definitely was!

So, once again, you are either just wrong, in my opinion, or unnecessarily general or simplistic in what you're saying and maintaining.

If you are EVER going to truly learn anything about golf architecture and its history and evolution, Patrick, you're just going to have to learn to pay closer attention to what I say and how I say it. There is basically no other way. In this realm I am your mentor and your master and you need to come to terms with that important fact of life and that important fact of learning!  ;)





« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 11:10:37 AM by TEPaul »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2008, 08:36:28 PM »
Patrick:

I flew over the Dye Fore course at Casa de Campo by helicopter today, and thought of your thread.  It has by far the most geometric architecture of any course I've seen (short of that Bob Cupp course at Hilton Head) ... really long rectangular bunkers, greens with flat edges, in a fantastic setting overlooking the river.  

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2008, 09:36:44 PM »
Patrick - Do the following aerial and ground photos (same hole) represent the type of geometrical design to which you are referring?



« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 11:18:19 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

TEPaul

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2008, 10:15:20 PM »
Well, after the fairly good conversation on here about geometric architecture and about what it REALLY is, let me just say that any architect today who tries it on any site or circumstance, almost no matter what or where it is, I think is getting into "gimmick" and I don't think I'd admire him or what he did.

To me the value of REAL "geometric" architecture is nothing more than as an odd peculiarity in the interesting evolution of GCA.

John Moore II

Re:The case for the return of Geometric Architecture
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2008, 10:26:57 PM »
TEP--while geometric architecture may be unnatural given the conditions, I would rather the fabrications be creative than copies of each other. Kidney bunkers, ovals with a finger, or any other copy bunker like that have no uniqueness. I would rather see a square bunker or a planar runnoff from the green, of even a conic greenside bunker.

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