[Patrick_Mucci]

but obscure the architecture and the strategy it creates ?

I was playing with four golfers, each of whom had their own laser range finder.

On every hole they determined the exact yardage to the flag.

But, on hole after hole they misplayed their approach shot.

I concluded that they had developed tunnel vision.
That they were so narrowed in on the exact distance to the flag that they had forgotten about, overlooked or minimized all of the surrounding features, which a golfer with a broader view, saw, first and foremost..

On approach shot after approach shot they played to the wrong location, leaving themselves very difficult recoveries, especially with flags that were at the extremes of the green, short, long or flanking.

Have laser range finders blinded golfers to the architecture and to the surrounds ?

[Joe Hancock]

So, what you're saying is you kicked their asses?

 

[Joe Bausch]

Have laser range finders blinded golfers to the architecture and to the surrounds ?

Uhh, I don't think so.  Why is this any different than these same golfers that have paced off the yardage from the nearest sprinkler head?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Technologies place a barrier between the user and everything outside the transaction. Range finders are not different in this regard from other technologies.

Joe B., well at least they're looking at something other than the flag.

[Steve_Lovett]

Pat -

Do you think their approach shots would've been different if they had glanced around to find a sprinkler head and quickly figured their maybe, oh, 182-185 yards out - and left their rangefinders in the bag or at home - rather than dialing it into their rangefinder which tells them they are EXACTLY 184 to the flag?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Steve,

Why is the alternative a sprinkler head?  Or any yardage-based assessment?

[Steve_Lovett]

Mark -

It was just an example.  Could be a sprinkler head - a plate in the fairway - a 150 yard bush - whatever....

My point was - maybe they were too caught up in the mathematical distance from the flag - when a "ballpark estimate" would be more than adequate to determine the best shot to hit.

I'm guessing their fixation on exact distance may not have left them aware of a lot of other factors which should be instructive as to how to play a shot.

[Jim Johnson]

Pat,

Just because they know the "exact" yardage doesn't mean they can hit the "exact" yardage.

Otherwise, they'd have been playing in Maui this past weekend.  

JJ

[John Moore II]

Hmm...why do I do this....
No, rangefinders do not cause tunnel vision, people cause tunnel vision. A person who knows how to play golf will see all the features and then measure the yardage. So they misplayed the approach, does that mean they hit good shots in the wrong location, or simply hit poor shots? Because in my experience, poor shots usually end with poor results no matter if you know the yardage or not.

[Matt_Sullivan]

Patrick,

As a former user of a range finder I would say that tunnel vision is a possibility but not an inevitable consequence. The danger, as you say, is when you only ascertain the distance to the pin. When I used a rangefinder, depending on the hole, the pin might be the last thing I looked at -- how far to carry the water or to the back bunker might be much more important.

I'm not sure it is all that different from players without range finders who fire at every pin regardless. It's a question of course management approach, rather than using or not using rangefinders

Matt

[Kirk Gill]

I've experienced much the same thing, playing with golfers who have a distance obsession, absent any thought about actual golfing strategy and not approaching a shot in a way that increases opportunity for success and minimizes the chance of disaster.

But that experience predated the existence of laser range finders. For people with that mindset, those devices are just the latest symptom of the kind of tunnel vision Mr. Mucci is discussing.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Have laser range finders blinded golfers to the architecture and to the surrounds ?

Uhh, I don't think so.  Why is this any different than these same golfers that have paced off the yardage from the nearest sprinkler head?

Joe,

Would you explain to me how a golfer knows the exact yardage from the fixed sprinkler head to the flagstick when the flagstick moves every day ?[/color]

[John Moore II]

How is it any different that every golfer be able to know exact distances when tour players have been able to know exact distances every day for years? Its all the same, you can know the exact yardage, but you still have to hit the shot. Even if I know the exact yardage, which I do sometimes when I use other peoples rangefinders, I still do not hit the shot, never once have I hit a shot the exact yardage on the exact line I was trying for when I used a range finder.
-Again, skycaddies, laser rangefinders, GPS on the carts, none of that causes a tunnel vision, people cause themselves not to see the course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hmm...why do I do this....

No, rangefinders do not cause tunnel vision, people cause tunnel vision.

A person who knows how to play golf will see all the features and then measure the yardage.

How many of them (people who know how to play golf) have you come across ?   What are their handicaps ?[/color]

So they misplayed the approach, does that mean they hit good shots in the wrong location, or simply hit poor shots?

You can usually distinguish between the two by the sound of the ball on the clubface and the flight of the ball.[/color]

Because in my experience, poor shots usually end with poor results no matter if you know the yardage or not.

I've found that the opposite is often true, for someone who knows how to play golf.

It's playing the shot with an allowance for "margins" of error, when those margins are a factor/function of the architecture presented.  Thus, mis-hits aren't penalized, or, are minimally penalized.

Golfers who are so focused on the exact yardage to the flag tend to overlook the surrounding architecture and circumstances, because the "exact yardage" is THE PRIMARY & CRITICAL factor to them.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

How is it any different that every golfer be able to know exact distances when tour players have been able to know exact distances every day for years?

Because the PGA Tour Pro takes every factor known to him and his caddy into consideration before planning and executing the shot, whereas, laser finders are making some golfers one dimensional when it comes to planning their shots.

This has NOTHING to do with execution.[/color]

Its all the same, you can know the exact yardage, but you still have to hit the shot. Even if I know the exact yardage, which I do sometimes when I use other peoples rangefinders, I still do not hit the shot, never once have I hit a shot the exact yardage on the exact line I was trying for when I used a range finder.

You don't get it.
Before you hit the shot, you have to plan the shot.
Execution has NOTHING to do with this thread.[/color]

-Again, skycaddies, laser rangefinders, GPS on the carts, none of that causes a tunnel vision, people cause themselves not to see the course.

Then let's call those devices "catalysts", that expedite the process of acquiring tunnel vision[/color]

The issue isn't about physical execution, it's about mental accuity and the limiting of the powers of observation through the acquisition of tunnel vision, vis a vis, laser range finders.[/b][/color]

[John Moore II]

No Pat, I do get it. I get that people, hack type golfers think anything will make them better, and they only get worse. As I have said, golfers cause themselves to not see things, the rangefinders have nothing to do with it. And execution has everything to do with this, you even said it in your original post "On every hole they determined the exact yardage to the flag. But, on hole after hole they misplayed their approach shot"  If they misplayed the shot, would it have made a difference if they knew the exact yardage or if they just guessed? No, they would have still been bad. Rangefinders are great tools for those that know how to play golf and expensive, worthless toys for those that don't.

[Michael Moore]

"Persons grouped around a fire or candle for warmth or light are less able to pursue independent thoughts, or even tasks, than people supplied with an electric light. In the same way, the educational patterns latent in automation are those of self-employment and artistic autonomy."

Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media

[Greg Stebbins]

I love my range finder, however it is only one part of the equation.  To really use it to your advantage, one should also map out the depth and features of the green.   While this is impossible when playing a course for the first time, it really helps me to plan the correct shots at my home course.  I find myself playing a greater variety of shots into the green when I am confident that I have the correct yardage.  If I cannot get an exact yardage, it will make me play a more safe shot to give myself a greater margin of error.  

[Mike Benham]

Much like a golfer who on a putt, focuses too much on the line and forgets to "hit it", yes tunnel (ps - check the spelling in your title)  vision, aka overly focusing on one variable of the shot, is possible.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
I don't thik it was a spelling error, Pat was creating a new word by combining 'Tunnel' and 'Bushnell' and coming up with 'Tun-nell'.

I think he should have just used the 'T' from tunnel, thereby creating the word 'Tushnell', which would have also described where you could store your rangefinder when not in use.  

[Bryan Izatt]

Jim,

ROTFL.  Gotta be the best of the young year.  Definitely bedtime now.

[Jim Nugent]

I only played a few times with range finders, and didn't use them much when I did.  So a few questions:

Say you grew up with no range finders.  You eyeballed all your distances.  Does using the finders now make you a better player?  

Do you find the real distance, as the range finder shows you, is much different from what your eyes tell you?  

Do you mostly use the range finders, or do you rely on your eyes to tell you the distance?

Back when, I didn't usually know the actual distance to where I wanted to hit the ball.  But I had a pretty good idea what club I had to hit, and how to hit it, to get the result I wanted.  Just wondering how much the range finders change that.    

[Joe Bausch]

Have laser range finders blinded golfers to the architecture and to the surrounds ?

Uhh, I don't think so.  Why is this any different than these same golfers that have paced off the yardage from the nearest sprinkler head?

Joe,

Would you explain to me how a golfer knows the exact yardage from the fixed sprinkler head to the flagstick when the flagstick moves every day ?[/color]

Some places I play have front, middle, and back yardages on the sprinkler head.  And those that just have the middle, most people can guesstimate the +/- needed depending upon the color of the flag.

I'm sort of amazed how quickly some people's attitudes change when they see a rangefinder is wonderful on certain types of holes.  For instance, the 16th at Scotland Run, a sweeping dogleg right over a very large quarry.  Don't know how much you can bite off?  Bingo, I'll give you the carries in about 10 seconds.

[Walt_Cutshall]

Me: "Let's see, rangefinder says 184 to the pin. Dang, right between and 4 and 5 iron. Hmmm...I definitely don't want to be in that front trap, but if I'm long I've got a nastly looking downhill chip. Let's check that trap...oh geez it's only 169 to clear that trap. Heck it doesn't look like I've got that much room between the trap and pin. Interesting. Okay, 5 iron it is."

If you want to talk about technology that makes you oblivious to GCA, start with the golf cart.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Walt
Nicely put.

Pat
How were you feeling after 18 holes with these guys? After walking alongside cartgolfers (and before anyone jumps on me, we all know that there is a difference between a golfer on a cart and a cartgolfer) for a whole round I sometimes find it hard to empathise, as it seems we are playing two different games.

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