Grade for GolfClubAtlas.com in 2007?

[John Kavanaugh]

"I don't have a problem with being happy.......,"


JohnnyboyK:

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say you don't have a problem with being unhappy---ie grumpy all the time?  

Truthfully, as long as my moods change I'm satisfied and rarely bored.

[RJ_Daley]

I have given my grade on a pass/fail basis.  GCA.com passes, and thus I made my yearly contribution once again, accordingly.

One thing makes me think that 2008 might be an opportunity you won't get every year, Ran and Ben.  As I understand it, Cabot Links is going forward.  Since the process of developing, designing and actually constructing Cabot Links will obviously be a one time occurence, I really think you ought to devote a separate button on the left side list, and have a weekly update of the progress of the project, including before, during and after pictures, w/comments,  of the various phases or stages along the way.  It would be a written and pictorial combination of some of the well regarded books and blogs we all know about.  It would be a bit romantic and entertaining like John Strawn's book, "Driving the Green" was for many of us GCA afficianados some years ago now.  It would be like Mike Hurdzan's book, "Golf Course Architecture" and act as an demonstrative and educational resource document.  And, it would be like Mike Nuzzo's blog, chronicaling the on-going process of such a highly anticipated project that gives the reader a front row seat.  I think such a feature would be one of the best services and educational experiences that those truly interested in such a topic could hope for.  I think of all the contributors on GCA.com that probably won't actually get to see the real nuts and bolts of the process as a practical matter - given their busy lives and their own duties.  To have a resource that demonstrates design from the ground up through and on-going perspective, would be an opportunity that shouldn't be passed up; if this suggestion is at all possible.

Thanks Ben and Ran for your continued dedication.

[Norbert P]

From the cheap seats . . .

Ran, you're contributions are A+ .

The FORUM needs to be considered as a data base, but the lack of searchability for topics and the chronologic priority of  importance makes it a "Thought-of-the Week" forum.  That may be fine for people who come here every day, but if not, then a person may be compelled to re-ask, without them knowing it has been asked before, and getting a disinterested group, and thus losing interest in the forum. It must be especially difficult for the newer members.  Having a feature to bookmark threads within the site would help but having indexed categories would even be better.  ( e.g., www.sciforums.com  )

A continuing book review database would be nice, but I know that would be a lot of work.  Perhaps a link here and there to other websites wouldn't be too bad of an idea for that.  There is a nice and non-commercial website for that idea at
 http://www.golfbookreviews.com/index.html   (Just a suggestion.)  Apfelbaum may be a nice interview, as well.

 

[Kalen Braley]

It is possible to provide good criticsm/feedback on a course and not resort to cheap shots at the architect or otherwise.  When people stick to this format and explain why they have thier position, I don't think anyone takes much if any offense to that.

Kalen,

I am curious if you find this to be an acceptable critique.  It is from a professional critic.

"I've played four or five Thomson courses. All of them leave me with the same impression.

He'll be remembered for being a great golfer and a fine writer."

John,

While not ideal, and certainly lacking explantation, I think its suitable in that its not offensive. Not everyone has hours and hours to fully contemplate thoughts before they contribute on this site.

My question to you is, do you think its acceptable?

[John Kavanaugh]

Kalen,

I tend to be more offended by cutey pie intellectual digs than red neck slams, so no, I do not think it is acceptable.  How long do you think it took a professional writer and critic to come up with the above.  What you people do not seem to understand is that the profession of golf course architect is not a joke.  For one thing, it is not even original, for another it is not funny.  It stinks.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

I tend to be more offended by cutey pie intellectual digs than red neck slams, so no, I do not think it is acceptable.  How long do you think it took a professional writer and critic to come up with the above.  What you people do not seem to understand is that the profession of golf course architect is not a joke.  For one thing, it is not even original, for another it is not funny.  It stinks.

John,

Fair enough, if that statement makes you blush, then I don't know what to tell you.  

But outside of personal insults, rumors, etc...as a general rule when it comes to this forum, offense is only taken, not given.

[George Pazin]

My primary suggestion would be for participants to be a bit more selective when making posts.  Sometimes I feel like I have to fllter through a fair amount of meaningless posts to get at the good stuff.

I understand what you're getting at here, but at the same time, sometimes seemingly inane posts can serve a couple purposes:

1) they bump deserving threads

and

2) just the mere presence of a response makes others more likely to respond. (It reminds me of when I used to do trade shows for my t's - it always drew more people to the booth to have anyone in the booth, regardless of whether they were interested or not.)

Other than that, you are wise as always. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment of explaining positions, which is why I frequently criticise the other JK for his digs at posters. It's interesting to me that Jax has no problem with hit and run criticism of posters, but a big problem with hit and run criticism of architects or courses. Maybe he's right on that, I don't know, have to ruminate a little more.

[John Kavanaugh]

George,

Every criticism has context.  You know there is a difference between me saying you are not a gentleman or Huntley saying it.  I don't have a problem with an idiot saying something sucks near as much as I have with a professional critic making a joke out of a mans career.

[George Pazin]

Very fair point, can't say that I disagree with it at all. As I said, you may be right, I'll have to stew a bit more.

[Jim Nugent]

Kalen,

I tend to be more offended by cutey pie intellectual digs than red neck slams, so no, I do not think it is acceptable.  How long do you think it took a professional writer and critic to come up with the above.  What you people do not seem to understand is that the profession of golf course architect is not a joke.  For one thing, it is not even original, for another it is not funny.  It stinks.

John, are you forgetting the context in which Brad made his statement?  He was reacting to Thomson's own pithy insight, that goes like this...

"When I first took up journalism, my kind but stern mentor laid down the principle that if my grandmother couldn't understand what I was writing about, it was a lousy piece of composition. I've come to carry this along into golf architecture. If my grandma can't play it, it's a lousy course."

Brad's response was right in step with what Thomson said.  I have no problem at all with it.    

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't see where Thompson was pithy at all.  He simply said what many on here had said before about all skill levels being able to play his courses.  I don't see where that earns being the butt of a bad joke at all especially by the critic who expounds that opinion more than most.

My point in this argument is that it is not possible to insult a mans lifes work without insulting the man no matter how cute you find your prose to be.  The cuter the prose you better watch your nose.

[TEPaul]

"Truthfully, as long as my moods change I'm satisfied and rarely bored."

There you go JuanK, that's an excellent thought. I think I might call that the "Big World Mood Theory"!

[Michael Whitaker]

Ran - I love this site and enjoy visiting nearly every day. Are some days better than others... of course. But, all-in-all, this site offers a GCA fix that can't be acquired anywhere else. Thank you.

My humble suggestions:

1) Recruit a few moderators that will keep conversations on track and/or move "rabbit trail" side-threads over to their own topic. There are WAY TOO MANY threads that get diverted down some off-topic alley just when they are just getting good. This thread is a good example: This whole conversation by Kavanaugh, Huckaby, Kalen Braley, et. al. needs to move over to its own thread... it's muddying up the waters here. There's nothing wrong with their conversation, mind you, it's just not germane to this thread. This sort of thing happens all the time and it could be easily controlled with proper monitors. No, I don't want the job... but I would gladly nominate Kavanaugh and Huckaby.

2) I'd really like to see a Ran Morrisett "Topic of the Month." Just one really good thought provoking thread starter from our fearless leader each month. If Tom Doak can make over 7000 posts while building golf courses all over the world, surely you can improve on your less than 2000 post level while trying to get one course off the ground!   More Ran = A Better Site and Better Conversations.

[Steve Lang]

  John Kavanaugh,

If you were a moderator.. do you think your posts would improve or degrade?

[John Kavanaugh]

John Kavanaugh,

If you were a moderator.. do you think your posts would improve or degrade?

Greatly, because there would be no off topic threads to distract me.  It would be all architecture all the time and it would not be boring.  I have proven in the past that I have no favorites and take no prisoners.

[Steve Lang]

 8)JK,

 Improve or degrade?

I assume your answer was improve! Correct?

[John Kavanaugh]

8)JK,

 Improve or degrade?

I assume your answer was improve! Correct?

Oops, improve for architecture fans, degrade for Huckaby.  

[paul cowley]

...need more naked women pic/posts.

[Joe Hancock]

Paul Cowley,

Please send an IM for a list of links you might enjoy.....

 

[Steve Lang]

 

Ran, Ben,

I suggest, no,.. I nominate John Kavanaugh as a moderator..,  

as best way to promote frank commentary!

[paul cowley]

JK is great....but not as backgrond Muzak....nor do I think he should control the guillotine.

[Eric_Terhorst]

The cuter the prose you better watch your nose.

John,  This comment reminds me of your one-liner about Lawsonia vs. Erin Hills--words to the effect of  "I would take my wife to Lawsonia and my son to Erin Hills."    As I recall, that was virtually your entire review of Lawsonia, and too cute by half.  

Mind you, I don't hold the dismissive one-liners against you or anyone else, and I find almost 100% of yours entertaining--but I agree, not very illuminating about golf course architecture.

Ran,

The site is Grade A.  I look forward to seeing the changes you are working on.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran,

Creating an effective search feature is difficult to figure out.

Perhaps if you could create two dozen general categories, one of which the original poster would check off to indicate the general theme of the thread, that might help with finding those threads long after they're lost on the very back pages.

Just a thought.

Your writing remains superb.

[Jim Nugent]

I don't see where Thompson was pithy at all.  He simply said what many on here had said before about all skill levels being able to play his courses.  I don't see where that earns being the butt of a bad joke at all especially by the critic who expounds that opinion more than most.

My point in this argument is that it is not possible to insult a mans lifes work without insulting the man no matter how cute you find your prose to be.  The cuter the prose you better watch your nose.

If Thomson believes what he said, he considers many or most of the world's greatest courses as lousy.  By your logic, Thomson insulted those courses and their architects.  

I don't see Brad's post as an insult.  He said Thomson was a better golfer than architect.  Do you disagree?  Would Thomson himself disagree?  Do you think, like Thomson, that courses like Pine Valley or CPC or Pebble Beach are lousy?  

On another thread you complained about lack of honesty here on GCA.  Now you're complaining because Brad's opinion might insult an architect.  Can't have it both ways.  

[Ulrich Mayring]

Besides the search function, which has been mentioned by many, this site is generally lacking documentation and help functions for newbies.

There is no description how the site works and what the various sections mean, what level of user contributions are welcome for what sections, what the standards are for each contribution, how the financing works, who is responsible for what etc.

And not only is there no meta information available, there is also no section where meta questions can be asked. And when there is a meta thread, such as this one, where concrete questions are asked, then they are not answered. If the current moderators do not have the time, then more moderators need to be recruited. Especially in a thread like this, which is asking for feedback from the users, I would have expected the moderators to follow it closely and address any questions.

Ulrich