Is this a bad hole?

[John Mayhugh]

One of the more recent additions to Kentucky's "golf trail" is at Mineral Mound, designed by Hurdzan-Fry.  The course is near my hometown and while I don't live there anymore, I've played there quite a few times.

The fourth hole has always been a puzzle to me.  This is a public course with many one-time players.  The hole seems too difficult with the lost ball penalty for missed shots being too high.  There may be a local rule defining the wooded areas as a lateral hazard, but if there's no water or chance of water I don't think you keep score that way.

Here's the layout of the hole.  The tee shot is slightly uphill with more elevation for the approach.  A good tee shot would travel about 230-240 yards from the regular tees.


As viewed from the regular (510 yard) tee.  The fairway angles to the left, making the line and yardage of the tee shot very important.  At the ideal landing area off the tee, the fairway is about 40 yards wide.  The fairway on either side is crowned and you don't have to miss by much to end up in the trees.  The rough is a little more forgiving on the left side than the right.


Another view of the hole from the front of the forward tee.


This is what the second shot would look like.  If you play from the regular tees and hit it 230 down the middle, you end up with a 170 yard uphill layup shot to the 100 yard marker.  You're also playing at an angle, making the line more difficult to select.  The fairway is about 35 yards wide at the 100 yard marker.  If you have to lay up short of that, it's tough.  The fairway is around 15 yards wide at the 200 mark and 25 at the 150.


If you run through the fairway on your approach, you only have a couple of yards before you're likely to lose a ball.  This was taken at the left edge of the fairway.


Here's what the hole looks like from the 150 looking back towards the tee.


Finally, a look at the green.  It's only 15 yards wide and 28 or so deep, with the cart path just off the green to the right.


My thoughts: since the hole is uphill, it plays more like 550 from the regular tees.  The landing area off the tee is marginally large enough, but the second shot required is too severe.  Maybe if the hole were shorter to make it easier to lay up to the 100 yard range it would be OK.

Any ideas on how to improve the hole?  Or do I just need to improve my game?  

[Rick Shefchik]

Bad hole. I loath narrow, tree-lined holes that slope off into the woods on both sides. That tells me the owner had a bad piece of land, didn't want to spend the money to make it playable, and doesn't care if the rounds take 6 hours.

[David_Tepper]

I am certainly not a big fan of holes built up the spine of a ridge that drops off pretty sharply on both sides, which is what this hole looks to be. I would like to think that a good hole gives you the option of missing on at least one side without having to take a penalty stroke.



 

[cary lichtenstein]

Looks like a bad hole to me, I wouldn't hit much more than a 6 iron on my second shot, look for the widest landing area.

[Joe Hancock]

Wretched.

Normally I would offer an explanation of my opinion, but the previous posters have it covered.

Joe

[Eric Morrison]

Improve the hole???! You would need a tree company and a bulldozer to improve this hole. Too bad there weren't a few more bunkers on this hole...it looks like it would play way too easy...

[Phil Benedict]

Just looking at this hole makes me claustrophobic.  

[Bill Brightly]

If it is a par 8 and you can only hit a wedge, I think it is a fine hole.

[Rick Shefchik]

On the other hand, it would make a nice cross-country ski trail...

[David Stamm]

On the other hand, it would make a nice cross-country ski trail...

Rick, that's what I thought I was looking at! Crikey that's bad!

[Matt_Cohn]

Reminds me of #16 at Balboa Park.

[Mike Benham]

Tighter then De Laveaga ...

[Joe Bausch]

Nice capture and description of the hole John.

If I was playing this hole in a tourney, I might hit three 7 irons, a wedge, then hope to make a putt.  That darn thing looks too tight for me.  

[Doug Ralston]

I hit a 5-wood down the right side, another across the gap to about 120yd, and my third to the center of the green. What was the problem?

Yes, this IS a rather difficult hole, but it simply takes the driver out of your hands. Lower your expectations a bit and it is quite playable. Mineral Mound allows plenty of action for your driver. Pragmatically, this is not the hole.

Tough little Hurdzan design.

Play Dale Hollow Lake SP for a more comfortable, though still lovely and challenging course. The 'trail' has some golf attached!

Doug

[Doug Ralston]

PS:

It's really is not quite THAT tight Joe.  

Doug

[Bill Brightly]

I hit a 5-wood down the right side, another across the gap to about 120yd, and my third to the center of the green. What was the problem?

Yes, this IS a rather difficult hole, but it simply takes the driver out of your hands. Lower your expectations a bit and it is quite playable. Mineral Mound allows plenty of action for your driver. Pragmatically, this is not the hole.

Tough little Hurdzan design.

Play Dale Hollow Lake SP for a more comfortable, though still lovely and challenging course. The 'trail' has some golf attached!

Doug

C'mon Doug. Think about all the 20-plus handicappers hitting slices, losing balls left and right off the mound, and play backing up while they search for the balls. This is golf architorture, IMO.

[Doug Ralston]

I hit a 5-wood down the right side, another across the gap to about 120yd, and my third to the center of the green. What was the problem?

Yes, this IS a rather difficult hole, but it simply takes the driver out of your hands. Lower your expectations a bit and it is quite playable. Mineral Mound allows plenty of action for your driver. Pragmatically, this is not the hole.

Tough little Hurdzan design.

Play Dale Hollow Lake SP for a more comfortable, though still lovely and challenging course. The 'trail' has some golf attached!

Doug

C'mon Doug. Think about all the 20-plus handicappers hitting slices, losing balls left and right off the mound, and play backing up while they search for the balls. This is golf architorture, IMO.

ROFL;

I don't have to think of them ....... they are ME!

I occasionally have good holes, and this was one. I enjoy juicing people up with this recount of it. I agree the hole is a threat to back up the crowd. A I DID slice my 5w from left of fairway across to my landing on the right side. Thus I must play my woods. Oddly, they play somewhat straighter from the turf [when accidently well struck].

Too hard a hole? Yeah, though perhaps a little exagerrated here. Still, quite a challenging course, and I enjoyed trying it. If you play it, plan a three shot approach, and you likely will keep your Titleist.

Please allow me to reiterate for the umpteenth time here: The Kentucky State Park Golf Trail has some very nice golf courses [of which Mineral Mound is, IMHO, one of the lesser]. Play Dale Hollow, Hidden Cove, Wasioto, and Eagle Ridge. Let me know what you think.

Doug

[John Mayhugh]

I hit a 5-wood down the right side, another across the gap to about 120yd, and my third to the center of the green. What was the problem?

Yes, this IS a rather difficult hole, but it simply takes the driver out of your hands. Lower your expectations a bit and it is quite playable. Mineral Mound allows plenty of action for your driver. Pragmatically, this is not the hole.

Tough little Hurdzan design.

Play Dale Hollow Lake SP for a more comfortable, though still lovely and challenging course. The 'trail' has some golf attached!

Doug

I don't really care about hitting driver on a par 5.  The landing area for the tee shot is OK.  

My major dissatisfaction is with the second shot.  You may be able to reliably hit a 5 wood across the fairway angle to a 30 yard wide landing area. I'm not that consistent or accurate.  I think the penalty for a misplayed layup shot is too great (lost ball in many cases).

Do you think this is a good hole?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Cape Kidnappers has a slew of holes with dead drop-offs on
both sides of the fairway, but I don't know how wide they are
(though it's very windy there, I've heard).  I've heard if
the wind really blows there, it's wicked hard.

Primland in Virginia has a few holes like this, too.  Almost
every hole has a drop-off on at least one side of the
fairway.  Most of the fairways are reasonably wide.

[Mike Mosely]

There might be a way to fix it.  make it so it looks like this from the tee and as you play up, but hide the landing areas behind the rises like #17 at Crystal Downs.  That hole looks too narro wna dseems like everything will fall off into the woods, but it works becaseu of the hidden landing areas.

[John Mayhugh]

I hit a 5-wood down the right side, another across the gap to about 120yd, and my third to the center of the green. What was the problem?

Yes, this IS a rather difficult hole, but it simply takes the driver out of your hands. Lower your expectations a bit and it is quite playable. Mineral Mound allows plenty of action for your driver. Pragmatically, this is not the hole.

Tough little Hurdzan design.

Play Dale Hollow Lake SP for a more comfortable, though still lovely and challenging course. The 'trail' has some golf attached!

Doug

C'mon Doug. Think about all the 20-plus handicappers hitting slices, losing balls left and right off the mound, and play backing up while they search for the balls. This is golf architorture, IMO.

ROFL;

I don't have to think of them ....... they are ME!

I occasionally have good holes, and this was one. I enjoy juicing people up with this recount of it. I agree the hole is a threat to back up the crowd. A I DID slice my 5w from left of fairway across to my landing on the right side. Thus I must play my woods. Oddly, they play somewhat straighter from the turf [when accidently well struck].

Too hard a hole? Yeah, though perhaps a little exagerrated here. Still, quite a challenging course, and I enjoyed trying it. If you play it, plan a three shot approach, and you likely will keep your Titleist.

Please allow me to reiterate for the umpteenth time here: The Kentucky State Park Golf Trail has some very nice golf courses [of which Mineral Mound is, IMHO, one of the lesser]. Play Dale Hollow, Hidden Cove, Wasioto, and Eagle Ridge. Let me know what you think.

Doug

I don't think I've done anything to exaggerate the difficulty of the hole.  The yardages are correct and no photo doctoring or unflattering angles.  Have you played the hole multiple times?  I've probably played it 20 times and rarely been part of a foursome that at least one person didn't lose a ball.

The course overall isn't bad.  I really like the 11th hole. It's a 280 yard par 4 cape.  I much prefer cape holes that move to the left.


The par 3 12th is also pretty good.


I agree that many of the other new KY courses are better.

[Jim Nugent]

Please allow me to reiterate for the umpteenth time here: The Kentucky State Park Golf Trail has some very nice golf courses [of which Mineral Mound is, IMHO, one of the lesser]. Play Dale Hollow, Hidden Cove, Wasioto, and Eagle Ridge. Let me know what you think.

Doug

Doug, could you give us a photo-tour some time of the trail?  Profile some or all of the courses, hopefully with pix?  

[JC Jones]

John -

With respect to #12, how far short of the hole is the hill on the right?  Will an errant shot out right feed back to the green off of that hill?

I agree this is a great little par 3.  Reminds me of #8 at Belvedere and #14 at Crystal Downs with uphill aspect of the hole and the "edge of the earth off the back of the green"  feel.

[Bill_McBride]

The hole - ugly as it is - reminds me of Burnt Pine (Rees) in Sandestin, Florida, with the built up fairways falling off both sides.

At least here there are "just" woods at the bottom of the slopes.  At Burnt Pine there are wetlands down there.  

[Jed Peters]

Yes, that hole is a pile of poo, should be demolished/etc.

I don't think I'd even play there because of that single hole.

Crap, crap, crap.