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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2008, 09:39:41 AM »
The cart girl can't here soon enough......

Joe

Ugly, fat cart girls
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2008, 09:42:22 AM »
To Lloyd:

when 80% of the green is wrong, it's because the green is too fast, forget 11 on the stimp, think 8.5 and it's all right

Maybe you play better conditioned courses than I tend to here in W. Massachusetts... we don't need the greens to be over 7 to have potential trouble.

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2008, 10:30:39 AM »
The cart girl can't here soon enough......

Joe

Ugly, fat cart girls




Or male cart.....people. With perms and big mustaches.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2008, 10:52:28 AM »
I'm surprised no one has made more of a mention of spike marks on the green.

If the green really does get special consideration because its a "ground" game, then fair enough.  But why on gods green earth would spike marks be excluded from this provision, when fixing ball marks are OK?  If it really is about giving a player a "fair" chance at knocking his ball in the hole, then why should a player be penalized because someone in the group in front of them doesn't know how to walk properly and messes up the green with spike mark scrapes?

In this same spirit, wasn't the stymie done away with because its supposed to be "man against the course"?  And if this is true, then why not be able to fix spike marks because I've had more than my fair share of short putts over the years that have gone off track due to this exact thing.

Michael Powers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2008, 11:10:54 AM »
Lloyd and Hindes,
Of course there is no justification for blaming the course for high side lip-outs with good speed.  My point is that if that is the only thing I ever "Blame the Course" on, then I'm playing golf in a frame of mind which will help me play my best.  There is NOTHING you can legitimately "Blame on the Course".  You play it back, down, and in, and then add it up at the end.  Everyone's playing the same course, so suck it up and play hard.
HP

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2008, 11:43:39 AM »

There is NOTHING you can legitimately "Blame on the Course".  

It's hard to take issue with this but I will give an example of a pet peeve of mine.

A few years ago my course redid all the bunkers and planted new grass in the work area.  For some reason this grass has underperformed expectations, so on several holes you get this thin hard lie on short-game shots that you need to hit high and soft.  It's just really hard to execute this shot which, on more than one occasion, I've bladed or fatted (chili-dipped is the technical description, I believe).  

I understand that that I should take personal responsibility for missing the green in the first place, but I can't help myself for blaming poor maintenance or the Gods or whatever.

Carter Hindes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2008, 02:32:47 PM »
Michael,

I agree with you that everyone is playing the same course but the intangibles are what makes it interesting.

I once told an agronomist from the PGA Tour that everyone was playing the same course.  He replied with,"Then why don't we just cut everything at the same mowing height and be done."  He then informed me that he had been in the business far longer than me and every decision he made was for a reason.  Well said T. B.
Carter Hindes

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2008, 02:47:54 PM »
The cart girl can't here soon enough......

Joe

Ugly, fat cart girls

Cary,

If you drink more, your perception will change  ;)
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Greg Krueger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2008, 03:06:58 PM »
Kalen, As much as I would like to agree with you on the spike
mark topic, I can't. Rounds take too long as it is, how much
longer might it take if everyone were tapping down spike marks!!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2008, 03:11:47 PM »
The cart girl can't here soon enough......

Joe

Ugly, fat cart girls




Or male cart.....people. With perms and big mustaches.

You're making me think twice before I bend over and fix another ball mark....

BTW, who stole the word "get" out of my sentence? I'm sure it was there before, right between the words "can't" and "here". Kindly return it and there will be no questions asked...... :)
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2008, 03:18:19 PM »
Kalen, As much as I would like to agree with you on the spike
mark topic, I can't. Rounds take too long as it is, how much
longer might it take if everyone were tapping down spike marks!!

Greg,

It takes the same time or less to fix a spike mark as it does to fix a ball mark or remove leaves from your line.  And the only ones you would worry about are those that are both in your line and noticeable.

Overall though, players waste far more massive chunks of times searching for lost balls, doing a tiger woods pre-shot routing, plum-bobbing, etc, etc.

At least fixing a spike mark is something that could very well be helpful in getting a better score.  ;)


Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2008, 05:34:27 PM »
Kalen: I understand, I really do. It's a topic that I have debated with others many times. Of course rules change. But if you look closely over the last 75 years not much has changed, really- more interpretation that hard rules. Stymies may be the exception, but the overriding theory on that is that the player is entitled to the condition he created, not what was created by someone else. Anyway, as for divots and spike marks and footprints in bunkers, the obvious question is how far do we go away from "play the course as you find it and the ball as it lies." (SOft spikes have essentuilly eliimated the spike mark problem, at leat in the US, where they are ubiquitous. About the only place traditional spikes are seen anymore in on the Tour.) Where do you stop, where Kalen wants? Where Jim, or Phil, or Sean want?  Or do we operate based on the question, "what is in the beest interest of the game?"


Sean: The committee always has the option, and many exercise it, to decalre a bunker that is "swamped" as you call it "ground under repair." Then the player may take relief outside the bunker without penalty. It's n ot likely to happen in the US Open because hte binker would be pumped out, but I've sen it a lot over the years. Otherwise, the extra penalty shot is assesed only upon the player choosing to take relief outside the bunker.

Here's something I can blame ont he course: on the third hole of a course I frequent, tres on the left side of the tee have grown out and taken away the preferred line for the tee shot, aiming players toward trouble on the right adn redering the left side of the teeing area useless.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2008, 05:44:27 PM »
Sprinkler heads - - big, deeply sunk sprinkler heads that screw up short game shots.

Deep bunkers where too much sand is pulled up into the banks so that balls plug into them, while leaving hardpan bottoms from which it's impossible to hit soft, lofted blasts.

Yardage markers that are wrong but you don't know it (at least the first time you played the hole and had a shot messed up.)

Nick Cauley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Things You Blame on the Course
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2008, 07:19:39 AM »
I would have to say pin locations,bunkers, and green speed are what I hear blamed on a golf course.  If the greens are rolling a 10, you rarely hear blame on a pin location.  When the green are rolling an 11.5 all the pin locations are bad.  So I feel a bad pin ties directly into green speed.  

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