[Jerry Kluger]

I just finished playing Four Streams Golf Club in Maryland which is a Steve Smyers design and I truly enjoy the club and the condition of the course, etc. but I noticed that the course has a large number of blind tee shots.  By that I mean that on many of the holes you have an idea of where to hit it but you cannot see the green and many times you cannot see the tee shot land.  How is the best way to handle this from a design standpoint, what is the best way to give the golfer the sense or feel of where the ball should be hit.  I think that simply having a schematic of the hole is not what is needed rather some way to define the shot and its shape in order to be in position for your next shot.  I have found that a sloping fairway gives me a much better sense of what I want to do as opposed to a set of diagonal bunkers and trying to guess which bunker I can carry to get the closest to the green.  What I dislike though is what I would call a counterintuitive fairway on a blind tee shot where the high side of the fairway is on the same side as the green.  The question then is how many blind tee shots should there be and how should the architect communicate to the golfer where the tee shot should be played and how should it be shaped?

[CHrisB]

I think the key to an effective blind tee shot is to have a receptive target on the other end.  When I think of the many good holes in the British Isles that I have seen with blind tee shots, the landing area is almost always flattish or gently sloped, but not severely sloped.  The blind holes at Royal County Down are good examples, especially a hole like #9.  Likewise, the most effective blind greens seem to be flattish or punch-bowl shaped, like #17 at Prestwick.  

I think you can have semi-blind shots with more daring slopes, for example #2 on the Crenshaw course at Onion Creek where the right side of the fairway is hidden but the visible left side slopes sharply to the right, so you can take your chances on a blind shot down the right or use what you can see and bounce it in from the left.

I like the use of directional stones to indicate the ideal line, as well as the use of squared or cornered off tee boxes that are aligned down the ideal line.

[DENNYG]

Blind Tee shots are nothing but an annoyance, and detract from the feeling of the hole.    Unless you are well familiar with what lies at the other end, it is simply a short cut to try and add something exciting to a ho hum hole.
A golf hole that totally displays itself to you and show all of the dangers involved raises the fear meter accordingly.

[DENNYG]

Broadmoor Course a good example of tiresome targets instead of nice sight lines.
I just visited the famous Broadmoor in Colorado Springs, courses that I have played many times.   ONe of the layouts consists almost entirely of severe doglegs.   You see only a flag which is the target point to hit your drive to.  Although the scenery in the mountains is great, you quickly tire of this sceme, and can't wait to finish.    As nice as the set up is at the Broadmoor, this "Target Golf" scheme just doesn't make it.
I can see the occassional blind hole when landscape demands it.   But's let not overdo it.   I'll pass the next time there.

[Jerry Kluger]

My question is what if the routing requires a blind tee shot is there a better way to handle the situation than to have directional markers in the fairway which I really don't care for.(Four Streams did not have them.)What I hate to see is a surprise and learn that the shot had to be played to one side and there is an unknown hazard on the other or simply the wrong way to approach the green.

[David Wigler]

Denny,

I could not disagree more.  Blind tee shots are a thrilling part of design.  Remember that it is only blind once.  Think of the 1st at Cypress Point or the 2nd at University of Michigan.  Mackenzie was the master of these.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I also like blind shots.   Blind tee shots should have minimal hazards near landing area.  I don't mind directional markers.  Pebble #8 has one.  Several of Raynor's Alps holes (along with Silva's Alps tribute at Black Creek) and other blind shots have directional poles or markers.  Saves time.

It makes you execute without seeing your target.  How's that for a challenge?

[Jerry Kluger]

Dave: If you are going out on Cypress Point you do not have a blind shot if you are with a caddy as he is your eyes to show you the way, and I understand that U. of Michigan course is private and you must play with a member, again who is your eyes.  I am wondering what an architect is going to do with a walking course where you are facing each shot on your own, is he going to give you a hint of what to do on a blind hole or just let you guess.  It is one thing to see a dogleg and not know how far you can hit before going through the fairway, on the other hand would it be fair to have a hazard which you cannot see from the tee box, would that ruin the experience if you are penalized for what you thought was a good shot and which the hole gave the appearance was the way it should be played.  

[mike_beene]

We discussed this some a while back,but I for some reason love a stake as a directional marker.I find a blind tee shot exciting.I don't care for a blind shot to a green,maybe with the exception of Alps and Himylayas(sp?)The Open again reminds me how much I like the blind tee shot on 11 at Muirfield.There is also a neat blind drive on 7 at Cedar Crest in Dallas.

[David Wigler]

Jerry,

I agree with you about the hazard in the landing area.  That is bad design on a blind hole.  I still love the blind shot.  Barton Hills (A classic Ross course) has a par four where Art Hills decided to add a water feature to the blind landing area.  It is now the only bad hole on the course (Side note - Why would anyone let Art Hills touch a classic golf course after the abortion he performed on U of M and Orchard Lake?

If the landing area is clean though, the shot really is thrilling.  If you get a chance, play a Mike DeVries course.  Mike is a young designer who really seems to have a feel for the blind tee shot.

[Jerry Kluger]

When I was thinking of a hazard at the end of a blind tee shot I was thinking about Dragon Ridge which is a Jay Morrish course near Las Vegas.  The 10th hole is a downhill par 4 with an environmental area between the tee and the green which rises up and blocks your view of the green and bisects the fairway.  The course guide book suggests that you play to the right over a yucca plant; the problem is that if you hit it in that direction you wind up in the desert.  Turns out the best play is to play it short left which gets you around the environmental area and leaves you with a mid to short iron to the green.  My original idea for this thread is really what should the architect do to help you decide on your tee shot on a blind hole rather that making it merely a guess which can sometimes ruin a round.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike Beene;

THAT's what is so great about this website.  Along with all of the heavyweight name courses thrown around here, someone will come up with an example that someone, somewhere, reads and says, "AHA"!

Your mention of the 7th hole on what is now a somewhat rundown muni in Dallas (Cedar Crest) did that for me.  It's a cool hole on a fun course, and probably very few here are aware that the course was designed by Tillinghast, and hosted the PGA Championship in the 20s which was won by Walter Hagen.  

Cool stuff, and good reference!

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