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Patrick_Mucci_Jr

The American fixation on trees
« on: December 29, 2007, 04:34:08 PM »
Recently I played a golf course that lost a substantial number of trees to previous hurricanes and an ongoing tree management program.

After the round a member showed me an aerial photo of the golf course taken about 40 years ago.

When viewing the photo I was surprised to see that there were very few trees on the golf course.

I had played the golf course over the last ten years when the club was nearing the tail end of it's tree planting program.

On the recent round I played, I liked the open look of the golf course.

After seeing the old aerial photo it became apparent that the golf course was designed WITHOUT all the trees that had been added over the years, and as such, the open look didn't allow the golfer to zero in on his target with absolute precision, on the drive and approach.

Today, with every sprinkler head marked and laser guns reading the exact yardage to the flagstick, deception is difficult to achieve, yet, the open look, the signal the architecture sends to the eye, still created doubt in the golfers mind.

Time after time I heard golfers question the caddy's laser shoot.
Time after time I heard them question the distance and/or state that it didn't look like like the distance in the laser gun read-out.

When playing a number of courses in Scotland, trees are nowhere to be found.

Yet, they seem to line every fairway and serve as a backdrop to every green.

Some will posture that trees were added for safety reasons, but, I find it hard to believe that architects were so obtuse as to ignore safety issues when they routed the golf course and designed the holes.

It seemed to me that the absence of trees aids the element that may affect golf the most, the wind.  And, that the absence of trees made it more difficult for the unobservant golfer to cope with the architectural presentation.

In this context, on this golf course, it appeared that the addition of trees over the years was nothing more than a crutch for the lazy or the course management challenged, and that their removal, naturally and unnaturally, produced a far better golf course, one more akin to the intended design as evidenced by the early aerial.

Are trees that were added to American golf courses, aids to more clearly define the corridors of play and frame the target ?

Are they the product of green committes trying to make their golf courses MORE FAIR ?  

And the line of play MORE OBVIOUS ?

Robert Thompson

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2007, 05:48:38 PM »
Pat: Isn't that essentially what Doak argues in the Anatomy of a Golf Course, when he says the lack of hazards impacts better players more than high-handicaps? Better players use hazards to define their shots and can occasionally struggle when they don't have something to gauge their shot against, whereas higher handicaps don't have the same consideration. I don't know whether Doak would agree that trees function in the same way, but it strikes me that they do define the intended shot more clearly, removing some options but also demonstrating a clear path for the shot.

And you are obviously right that they add depth and dimension to a course, whereas treeless courses don't have the same depth, which is another issue when it comes to distance.

However, I think courses more than three decades old likely didn't have the same safety considerations that face modern designs, so I suspect some trees have been added for safety reasons that were not a concern of the original architect.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

JohnH

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 05:54:07 PM »
The addition of over 80 trees in the last 7 years on my course is necessary for two reasons: safety and respect for the environment.  Emerald Ash Borer has destroyed many trees, which demands human involvement to restore the landscape to its original form.  That coupled with the fact that six holes align side by side so closely that safety to golfers has to be paramount.  This is just one example of a greens committee's obligation to a 75yr old golf course.  This doesn't correlate with your example, as this course had these trees originally, but my point is there are examples where the addition of trees is a necessary component to restore the course to its original form.

To answer your questions directly-- yes, I believe there are many reasons why trees are added, and you listed three.  Safety, fairness, and to frame the target, as it relates to the golfer having a "more enjoyable" experience.  But I don't think it's that simple all the time.  Coming straight from greens committee members I have been involved with, there have been instances where the desire for environmental preservation has been so great in those meetings that yelling and red faces are not uncommon when it comes to the addition of trees, whether it affects the golf course or not.

One must remember, in your words, what is termed better for the golf course - more akin to the intended design - is not always a shared opinion amongst committee individuals, and is a subjective thing.  I agree with you, however, that the intention of the original designer must be preserved at all costs.  Unfortunately, that intention is not always shared.  In my case, I wrestled with a chairman who wanted to leave "his mark" on the course.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2007, 06:05:50 PM »
Pat, I like trees.  I like them in my yard, in parks, and on golf courses.  My favorite golf is links, however.  I like variation in golf courses.  I don't like the trees to be intrusive but on an American parkland course they acceptable.  What I think is unfortunate is the wholesale planting of trees on courses that were designed without them. Planting trees say on a course like Oakmont, changes the strategy because it blocks the wind.  

My course, Four Streams was built on land that had both trees and farmland.  No trees were planted and the holes in the trees were designed so that they present a "hazard in the sky."  Smyers just used the land as it was presented to him.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Gary Daughters

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 10:33:28 PM »
On most of the courses I play holes are defined by the cutting of trees, not the addition of them.  I think it's not so much an obsession, but what golfers have become accustomed to.  This may explain the addition of trees to a golf course which the discerning eye finds senseless.

Our discussions about trees have made me look more closely at the way they are used in landscaping, and I've come to  conclude that their selection and placement are the biggest blunders committed.  People love to plant trees and watch the things grow.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 10:45:17 PM by Gary Daughters »
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Ari Techner

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 10:55:31 PM »
On most of the courses I play holes are defined by the cutting of trees, not the addition of them.  I think it's not so much an obsession, but what golfers have become accustomed to.  This may explain the addition of trees to a golf course which the discerning eye finds senseless.

Our discussions about trees have made me look more closely at the way they are used in landscaping, and I've come to  find their selection and placement to be the biggest blunders that are committed.  People love to plant trees and watch the things grow.

I agree with this post completely.  My home course has far too many trees and tree limbs in play and anytime I try to talk to any of the members that I am playing with about it they do not get what I am saying at all.  I think it is just what they have become accustomed to.  They do not have the experience playing other great courses that do not have excessive amounts of trees.  They have not seen what great open scenic vistas it can create.  They also do not know what it is like to play with more open playing corridoors and with more strategic play options.  I know that given free rein over a proper tree removal and trimming I could make my home course that much better and more importantly more fun to play.  

Doug Ralston

Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 11:31:19 PM »
I state, admittedly without qualification, that vastly more courses have had trees removed than added.

If you want to have treeless courses on the beach, or in the sand hills of Nebraska, that seems natural, and that is what generally happens. By why rip a hole in a forest? Trees in hill country and in the mountains are needed for soil stability, no?

Is there a place where sand pits promote ecological continuance? I am not arguing for removal of all sand traps, but in most [not all] places, they are for golf only, not for ecology.

Leave the poor trees alone. If they interfere with your golf, hit over there where they are not. Or play all you golf in ugly, treeless, sandy, shrubby [no, not GWB .... those other shrubs], dry wastelands.  :D

Trees are good.

Doug

Ari Techner

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 11:36:36 PM »
I am not advocating cutting down all the trees.  In the case of my home course if they game me free rein with my tree removal program a lot of people would barely notice the trees that were gone.  I would not change the look, feel or character of the course but take out the trees or tree limbs that were planted years ago and have grown far bigger than the original architect intended.  They now severely encroach on the line of play without any strategic interest and the course could "play" much better without them.

Jon Wiggett

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 04:01:32 AM »
The addition of over 80 trees in the last 7 years on my course is necessary for two reasons: safety and respect for the environment.  Emerald Ash Borer has destroyed many trees, which demands human involvement to restore the landscape to its original form.  

John,

I appreciate the safety aspect of what you say but, are the club's policies 'respect for the enviroment' and 'restore the landscape to its original form' carried through in all areas or are these statements convenient lip service?

Are the club mowing with electric and hybrid machines? Do they clip by hand or with petrol strimmers? Are they using organic feeds and recycling all the waste from the course? Are the paths natural or concrete? Are the trees planted native (original) to the area and in a mix that would be found in nature? etc.




JSPayne

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 09:11:57 AM »
There needs to be a critical distinction made here. That between the courses that are CUT INTO already forested land and those courses that were once treeless or virtually so but have now BECOME forested due to planting programs deemed necessary by whomever for whatever reasons.

Regarding the former, when needing to cut, less is more. Esepcially during construction. As one poster noted, to maintain fluidity and harmony with the nature surrounding the course, it is best to avoid altering it as much as possible and use the trees as part of the architecture.

With parkland courses, more importantly those which were designed and built with little to no existing trees, the addition of new trees is hardly ever worth it, from a playing, architectual or financial standpoint. Allow me to expound:

From a playing standpoint, young planted trees don't look like much as saplings. Thus many courses tend to overplant, both to try and achieve coverage and also anticipating that not all the tress will make it. Often, these plantings never get thinned out properly once the trees do finally take hold. The addition of trees, especially without consideration to type, height, etc. can create a variety of problems for the play of the game including innumerable obstacles which the majority of high-handicappers spend immense amount of time in finding their ball and trying to play crazy shots out of, slowing the pace of play immensly. Also, tree debris in the form of leaves, cones, nuts, twigs and branches can make it hard to find a ball, make a ruling on how to play it without being penalized and then make a good enough shot to get it out of such loose impediments, once again slowing play.

From an architecture standpoint, post-construction planted trees, especially those put in without the architect's guidance often re-route holes, take away vistas, remove risk-reward shot making and disrupt the flow of the design and intentions of the original layout.

Lastly, nobody ever thinks about how much trees cost a course. You have to pay to put the tree in, pay to maintain it (trimming, fertilizing, water, mulching, pest control....if you're going to do it right), and then pay to take it out when it dies. Trees also shade grass, causing thin turf that superintendents fight constantly to try and maintain as lush, thick rough. Tree shade easily creates wet areas, which golfers hate, forcing courses to handwater more than they might have to in all these areas, costing thousands in labor hours as opposed to automated sprinklers that could be used otherwise. Trees around greens cause both shade and lack of air movement resulting in disease problems (which usually are remedied with expensive chemical control), drainge issues (often resolved by expensive drainage projects) and overall weaker, thinner turf due to lack of sunlight. And of course, there are the endless man hours needed to clean up tree debris like leaves throughout the entire fall, branches, twigs and some messy fruiting bodies. There's more, but I'll hold back a little.

The majority of golfers on my course love their trees. They even glorify the ones we have that have struts underneath heavy branches and braces inside of nearly hollowed out trunks as "signs that you just need a little support as you age to remain strong and beautiful". By my calculations from a tree count done by the members, if you replanted all the trees on our course on equal spacing, we would have one tree on every sprinkler (60x60 spacing) and a canopy that would almost equal the coverage of the irrigation (wall to wall).

Yet their response to us should we try to explain this to them in an effort to take out a dying willow that may fall and kill an unsuspecting golfer, "Only if you'll plant another one to take its place."

If someone has the magic key to educating golfers and greens committees on trees, send it my way.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Andy Troeger

Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 09:28:45 AM »
JSPayne,

Well said, philosophy and explanation for it.

JohnH

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 10:23:33 AM »
The addition of over 80 trees in the last 7 years on my course is necessary for two reasons: safety and respect for the environment.  Emerald Ash Borer has destroyed many trees, which demands human involvement to restore the landscape to its original form.  

John,

I appreciate the safety aspect of what you say but, are the club's policies 'respect for the enviroment' and 'restore the landscape to its original form' carried through in all areas or are these statements convenient lip service?

Are the club mowing with electric and hybrid machines? Do they clip by hand or with petrol strimmers? Are they using organic feeds and recycling all the waste from the course? Are the paths natural or concrete? Are the trees planted native (original) to the area and in a mix that would be found in nature? etc.





I can say this for certainty.  Careful attention to native trees in the planting program has been maintained, in the proper areas, in regard to giving them the best chance for long term survival.  

With all due respect, I understand what you are getting at, but I think you are splitting hairs with your other questions.  It is neither cost effective nor realistic in this day and age to 'clip by hand' and would love to hear examples of maintenance budgets that allow x amount of dollars for that, on a large scale anyway.  Regardless of right or wrong, our money driven society and the desire to do things easy and fast for the sake of efficiency is the norm.  This does not allow for courses to do the things you ask across the board in the name of consistency, although I'm not saying they shouldn't make an effort.

  I am a proponent of organics and use them, and proper waste management practices are upheld at our facility.  I feel for the most part of the ten years I have been here, a vast majority of the decisions made have been to maintain the structural integrity of the course and its surroundings.

Jon Wiggett

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 04:43:14 PM »
[quote author=JohnH
I can say this for certainty.  Careful attention to native trees in the planting program has been maintained, in the proper areas, in regard to giving them the best chance for long term survival.  

With all due respect, I understand what you are getting at, but I think you are splitting hairs with your other questions.  It is neither cost effective nor realistic in this day and age to 'clip by hand' and would love to hear examples of maintenance budgets that allow x amount of dollars for that, on a large scale anyway.  Regardless of right or wrong, our money driven society and the desire to do things easy and fast for the sake of efficiency is the norm.  This does not allow for courses to do the things you ask across the board in the name of consistency, although I'm not saying they shouldn't make an effort.

  I am a proponent of organics and use them, and proper waste management practices are upheld at our facility.  I feel for the most part of the ten years I have been here, a vast majority of the decisions made have been to maintain the structural integrity of the course and its surroundings.
Quote

John,

thanks for the honest answer. I would point out that I have not asked anybody to do anything, I just asked if the club was really doing what was hinted at in the post.

Caring for the enviroment isn't just about buying 'carbon credits' in distant lands so as to try and justify the amount of damage one is doing to the enviroment as some would like us to think. It is about thinking how can we reduce our pollution to a minimum. Maybe hand clipping is abit over the top and I fully agree it is not financable for any but a few well off clubs but electric trimmers are a good alternative, as are electric and hybrid mowers.

It is great that you are doing a waste management scheme and I assume you are always looking at ways of improving so keep up the good work.

Well thats enough done with the preaching ;)

Patrick_Mucci_Jr

Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2007, 08:51:07 PM »
Doug Ralston,

Many, if not most early courses were built on farm lands, land devoid of trees.

JohnH,

If your club wants to be environmentally active, why plant trees anywhere near the playing corridors ?

Why not plant them along the perimeter property line, along the driveway, next to the pool, tennis courts, clubhouse, parking lots and areas far removed from the golf course ?

JohnH

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2007, 09:55:07 PM »
JohnH,

If your club wants to be environmentally active, why plant trees anywhere near the playing corridors ?

Why not plant them along the perimeter property line, along the driveway, next to the pool, tennis courts, clubhouse, parking lots and areas far removed from the golf course ?

Patrick,

I guess my example is quite different from yours.  Our replanting program consists of replacing trees that were part of the original design, in most instances.....

Patrick_Mucci_Jr

Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2007, 09:53:37 PM »
JohnH,

How do you know which trees are original and where they were on a golf course that's 75 or more years old ?

JohnH

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 10:52:32 PM »
JohnH,

How do you know which trees are original and where they were on a golf course that's 75 or more years old ?

We've lost over 45 mature Ash trees framing various parts of the golf course aged between 110 and 125 years old.  The largest was lost this past season and was dated at 150 + years old.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2007, 11:02:24 PM »
It is not exclusively an American obsession.  I haven't played Chantilly or Montfortain, but they seem to be very heavily treed.  And in Australia, I played some courses that could use some tree management--in fact, all the Eucilyptus garbage was a dangerous snake environment and they don't call the trees widow makers for nothing!  And when I last played in Scotland, the other 3 members of my group at Carnoustie were commenting about a "great" course inland that felt like it had been cut from the forrest.  Remember, some polls have ranked Loch Lomand comfortably in the top 10 throughout Europe.  And when a japanese group purchased Soboba Springs years ago, they immediately planted hundreds of pine trees!

Carter Hindes

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Re:The American fixation on trees
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2008, 09:31:08 AM »
When I was a beginner golfer I had a false image that good architecture was having a tree lined fairway that framed every hole.  Living in Texas now I enjoy golf courses that use features that make up Texas....wind, F&F.  This is what makes up Texas and sometimes golf courses inhibit what makes Texas golf special.
Carter Hindes

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