Blind Opinions on a CA Municipal Course (pics)

[JSPayne]

Temporarily I will withhold the exact information about name and whereabouts of this course. I worked there throughout college and it's where I got my start in golf maintenance. I was naiive to the design at the time and only looked at it as a fun place to play, but really lacked in the conditioning. Props to anyone who can name the course and architect!

It's a municipal course, and only about 5-6 greenskeepers work full time. Bermuda fairways with bent/poa greens and the conditions are always firm and fast. Looking back now I appriciate the shot values more and realize that while it is a shorter course (6548 from the tips) that can easily yeild low scores, it's low maintenance and firm conditioning makes a big number very attainable as well for misguided shots that may challange the many reachable holes.

Curious as to what the great GCA here might think from a "blind taste test". Forgive the pictures as the day was slightly cloudy and all the yardages listed are from the back tees. Enjoy!

1st Hole: 389 yds, Not a tough opening hole, water on left is driveable though


2nd Hole: 427 yds, Tough tee shot, about 150+ carry over water, ESA (environmentally sensative area) right to a left to right sloping fairway, green perched above and against the side of the hill on the 2nd shot


3rd Hole: 204 yds, If your shot doesn't make the green's plateau level, you run the chance of your shot rolling all the way back down to the creek at the bottom


4th Hole: 370 yds, One of my favorites, bite off as much as you can chew. The green is unreachable, the left rough is virtually hardpan and you need a big drive to reach the upper plateau and a flat lie or else your second from the fairway will be an uphill lie on a right to left shot


5th Hole: 466 yds, Yardage looks long, but tee shot plays WAY downhill, ESA danger again on right. One greenside bunker exists on the right but if you're right and miss that, your ball will again roll all the way to the bottom for a tough uphill pitch to a narrow green


6th Hole: 398 yds, Another downhill tee shot makes this hole shorter than it lists. Gaping bunker sits right in front of the middle of the shallow green making even a pitched 2nd shot no easy feat


7th Hole: 518 yds, Reachable par 5, your drive can reach the water on the left though. 6, 7 and 8 are where you need to make your good scores to get ready for the more challanging back 9.


8th Hole: 135 yds, Most bland hole on the course IMO. Unless the water carry is your nemisis, this should be an easy 3.


9th Hole: 418 yds, Similar to #2, forced carry off the tee, longer carry required the farther left you try to go, landing area narrows the longer the drive, bi level green sloping back left to front right


10th Hole: 500 yds, Reachable par 5, but second shot has to carry a creek to a well protected green with rock outcropping on left and ESA on right


11th Hole: 438 yds, Severly left to right sloping fairway, downhill tee shot with a creek guarding the right side and cutting in front of the green, easily reached with a driver, tough downhill sloping lie on the 2nd from almost everywhere in the fairway


12th Hole: Blind landing area to a humpback fairway. Long drives will clear the ridge giving a clear 2nd but over the ridge the fairway drops down severly sloping left to right, shallow green running left to right with steep dropoffs guarding the entire front and right sides



13th Hole: 164 yds, Straightforward par 3, to a bi level green, shots short and left obviously filter down away from the green


14th Hole: 549 yds, Reachable in 2 as the fairway slopes downhill and drives will run out, but also run the chance of running all the way into the creek crossing the fairway, 2nd and 3rd shots are uphill to another shallow left to right green with front facing bunkers


15th Hole: 206 yds, TOUGH par 3, practically all carry, good luck finding your ball if you miss anywhere short or left


16th Hole: Reachable par 4, but your tee shot would have to be blind over the hillside on the right. Safe play is long iron straight out and a pitch to a relatively easy green


17th Hole: 500 yds, Reachable, if you want to challange two front facing bunkers and a shallow green. Otherwise easy par 5 when 2nd is playing out the right and 3rd can be played in right to left into the longer length of the green (picture is of the 2nd shot)


18th Hole: 184 yds, Relatively easy and bland finishing par 3, but club selection can be difficult on the moderate drop-shot to the green. In the end, the player only has themselves to blame if they can't pull of some good scores on the last 3 holes

[Tom Huckaby]

This is killing me!

I have this perhaps misguided belief that I have played everywhere there is to play in our state, particularly munis... it's my bread and butter... but while this course does look vaguely familiar, I can't place it!

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

So OK, I shall comment without knowing (or recalling) what course this is.  This is a darn good way to assess things, it removes biases or preconceptions.

And I will say this course looks damn fun to me.  Looks tough but not too tough... and I dig all the angles and 16 and 17 look very fun action-wise.... the greens and surrounds look pretty cool to me too (from afar). Lots of faiway movement but not crazy hilly... I want to play there.  Come on man, you gotta tell me.  

TH
huckaby72@yahoo.com (hint hint)

[Jeff_Stettner]

Huck,
You are certainly a fan of the man that designed the course. It opened with little fanfare. Drive south into yonder hills and think back to the 1990's... take a look at the bunker. Who would design that style?

[Joshua Pettit]

Jeremy,

The course is Dairy Creek in San Luis Obispo, directly across the street from Cuesta College, which is where I spent some of my college days not so long ago.  I worked there for a bit, and I believe you did to.  What are your impressions of the course?  


Tom,

You are not missing out on much.

[JSPayne]

HA.....my fun with Huck has been spoiled.

I should have known you'd be lurking around this site Josh.

Did you enjoy "The Creek" (as we called it) back in the day?

[JSPayne]

I really should finish reading posts before I post.

Like I said in the original post Josh, I didn't think DC was the best track when I worked there, but looking back and having played it once since my college days, I came to find that I enjoy it more than I thought I did. The firm and fast nature is definetely a welcome change over all the lusher, greener courses I've now gotten used to in the Bay and Sacramento areas. The design as well poses many MANY fun oportunities to push yourself and risk going for alot of the par 5s and some par 4s while also presenting some real hazards for taking those risks. But at the same time the average golfer can have a pretty easy go around the course just playing it safe and still score well. The green complexes for the most part also yeild to a varietly of short game options and bump and run plays as opposed to having to fly into every green.

I've heard our glorious mentor of a superintendent has been relieved of his post there. Not a huge surprise, but like the course, while I didn't care much for his management when I was there, I can't say that looking back now I didn't learn a few very important lessons about GCM while under his watchful eye.

And I'm sure I'll never outlive my nickname of "Bubbles" at that place......ahhh.....memories.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Wasn't this course the dream of the golf administrator for SLO County?   Was his name Ray Festa?  Anyway I talked with him once and he seemed quite self assured about building the next great course in that area.  I suspect he has retired by now, but I also suspect it will be a long time before the debt is retired.
I have never heard anything bad about the course, and the above comments are probably the most good I have heard about it.

[Scott Szabo]

The 3rd and 15th holes look identical to one another, both in terms of length and playability.  

Am I correct?

[JSPayne]

Lynn,

I don't know about the course being anyone's dream, but you are correct in knowing about Ray Festa. He had his office there at the course in the same trailer (yes, the wonderful offices of golf maintenance workers) as the superintendent.

I don't know if it was retirement, but I did notice just yesterday that there is indeed a job opening posted for his position as director of golf for the county courses(Dairy Creek, Morro Bay and Chalk Mountain).

I wonder if it is mainly the conditioning as opposed to the design that has garnered all the not-so-great reviews for this course. I will admit the conditions are lacking, but we're talking about a county-run muni where I'm sure the majority of the budget goes towards expensive labor and benefits as opposed to the necessary tools to get the course looking great. And yet, I find the lack of maintenance (i.e. the hardpan areas of no grass between holes, the irregular lies, the inconsistant turf in perimeter areas) to add to the difficulty and risk-reward hazards of the course.

[JSPayne]

Scott,

You are correct to some extent. The pictures don't discern much difference. However, the 3rd green sits are more of an angle, from front right to back left. Pin positions in these two areas can require up to 2 club lengths difference in shot selection and as such the hole often tends to play shorter than listed. There is very little room on the right to miss and if you're short you can only hope to catch the bunkers.

15 green plays more horizontally and shallow, thus much harder to hold. There is also a bit more bail out room on the right as you can see a small fairway/approach trailing out right of the green then a little down the hill. An up and down is not too difficult from here and it's definetly the better spot to miss.

[Phil McDade]

Golly, I wish the muni's I play in and around Madison WI looked this interesting (and had neat backdrops like some of these holes). I like the willingness of the course designer to throw in a few blind and odd-angle shots to tempt and/or confuse the golfer. Other holes that at first glance look pretty neat: 4 (save for the stupid pine trees), 13 (which looks like a really good par 3), 15, and the blind tee shot on 16. Not-so-great: The course looks a bit like it ran out of good terrain, with 17 and 18 being somewhat bland; I like the look and length of the par 3 3rd, but any shot short that rolls back that far into a penalty area strikes me as a little goofy; too many cart paths that cross the line of vision of golfers on tees. I barely tolerate cart paths, and to have several that cross the line of vision (not necessarily play, as they seem not to far in front of the tees) is distracting; I'm finding I really don't like that feature on courses.

But all in all, for a county-run muni, it looks to have a great deal of interest. Thanks for posting!

[JSPayne]

For those of you still curious, the architect was John Harbottle. Obviously a precursor to some of his better and more renowned works (Stevinson Ranch, Genoa Lakes, etc.).

I highly encourage anyone staying in or passing through San Luis Obispo to check this one out. Right off the highway heading towards Morro Bay and the coast. I like the other county courses (Morro Bay and Chalk Mountain in Atascadero) but Dairy Creek will definetely stand out the most for design quality I think.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Morro Bay is actually owned by the State of California.  Unfortunately they don't have the balls to take the operation out of the County's hands.  County residents control the play and thus State residents get second choice on tee times.  Morro Bay may never have been a great design, but I believe the original clubhouse was across the street over looking the blue Pacific.  The building is still there.

[Tom Huckaby]

I do feel better for my sanity - I have never played this course.  I was on tap to do course rating for NCGA there once (I think) but had to bail.  In any case, it does look pretty cool to me.  And yes I am a fan of Harbottle.

I'm good at the ends of our state, not so good at the middle.  Played La Purisima, seen Hunter Ranch countless times on drivebys, that's about it.

There was thought that The Renewed King's Putter would be held in the middle of the state... but with Getka in charge and me sending missives behind the scenes, don't count on it.  Think North.


 

[ed_getka]

The course overall looks interesting. A couple of repetitive looking long par 3's. The only thing I don't know is what is going on internally and with the surrounds of the greens. I would definitely want to take a look at the course if I was ever in the area. I'm sure the price is right.

[SB]

Damn, I'm old.  This course didn't even exist when I went to school there.

[JSPayne]

In response to Ed's post, I've found a bit more time to post some pictures of the approach shots and greens surrounds....

#1: Best play is off the right mowed bank (can you imagine how difficult a chip you'd face if you missed right and the right banks were mowed as rough with only a collar around the green? Downhill, out of thick bermuda towards water....YIKES.)


#2: Best play here is off the left hill, you can just barely see the top lip of the right greenside bunker. Anything right of that is in the junk. (Note the sloping lie of the fairway....this shot is taken after about as good a drive as you can hit)


#4: Taken after another good drive that made it to the flatter upper plateau...I really like the skyline nature of this green.


#5: Once again, danger for shots missed right of the bunker. Scary shot for your average slicing 18-handicapper.


#6: Hard to see in this picture, but the green extends about 15 yards to the left and right of this bunker, but where the pin is directly behind....the green is only about 10 yards deep.


#9: Doesn't look like the left bunker comes into play, but this bi-level green runs deep right to left and back pin placements can be very tough to reach


#10: This view would be for your 3rd after laying up in front of the creek. Well-protected green, as the rock outcropping comes right up to the front left corner of the green.


#11: My least favorite green complex. About the only thing difficult about it is you'll hardly ever find a non-sloping lie in the fairway to hit into it from.


#12: After just clearing the fairway ridge with a 3-wood. You can tell how a longer drive runs the chance of running out right and being lost way down below the green. However, a brave long drive kept right on the left edge of the fairway stands a chance of running out onto the green


#14: Another dark picture, but this shot would be your 3rd after clearing the creek that runs through the fairway. Green runs back from left to right

[Joe Hancock]

I am enjoying the less than perfect maintenance. It looks like it would be an enjoyable round.

Joe

[Richard Boult]

Although I enjoy playing Dairy a lot, I'd place it a ways behind nearby La Purisima, Hunter Ranch, Monarch Dunes and Cypress Ridge - as far as design goes. Conditions at Dairy have improved tremendously since the superintendent at Morro Bay took over, especially the greens.  And yes, Ray Festa is still in charge of all the county courses.

[Richard Boult]

p.s. I've posted photos of Dairy Creek and other SLO County courses at flickr.

SLO County Course Photos

[tlavin]

The fairways are quite munificent for a "muni"...

Sorry, couldn't resist.  For a muni, it looks more than just a little bit enjoyable.  The attempt at tree and bush landscaping seems lacking in imagination, but the basic layout is very solid for a muni.

[ed_getka]

J,
   Thanks for the additional info. I will keep that course on the radar screen when I get down that way in the future.

[JSPayne]

R-

I admit that Hunter, La Purisma and Cypress offer more in the way of conditioning, and POSSIBLY architecture (depends on what your personal taste is), but you have to admit Dairy is a steal of a deal even at their peak weekend rate of $44 compared to those three who are pushing near $100 rounds for the same tee times.

In any case, I would easisly call it my best pick of the three county courses. And that's interesting to hear about Ray Festa....maybe his presence there is only temporary, because I am 100% certain I have seen a job posting for his job. Best of luck to him whatever he continues or moves on to do though...he's a great guy.

[Kyle Henderson]

I played Dairy on the 5th of July. I generally try to see the positive in new courses and I've really enjoyed Harbottle courses in the past(Stevinson Ranch and Cinnabar Hills are excellent, Monarch Bay is good). That being said, I thought Dairy Creek was dreadful. Most of the fairways were canted such that every ball would feed off of side into junk. Junk guarded the high sides such that the only option for hitting a fairway was to hit an iron that turned sharply into the side slope. Green sizes and orientations did not fit the required shots. The bunkers were featureless ovals.

I will forgive the poor conditions and slow play -- It's muni golf, after all. But I still have to give the course two thumbs down.

I'm guessing Harbottle doesn't have his own shapers on staff. The construction of Stevinson Ranch is vastly superior in artistry and functionality to Dairy Creek's.

[Garland Bayley]

The problem with not putting course name and architect on the subject line means that a thread one might like to read gets overlooked. Not only did I overlook it, but apparently so did Tom Doak who asked about this course on this site not too long ago.

And by the way, it is way better than Hunter Ranch. Anyone can make a difficult course. It takes a special talent to make interesting courses that are not killers for the average golfer.