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Tom Renli

TPC Scottsdale Champions (new) v Desert (old)
« on: December 23, 2007, 08:10:36 PM »
The new Champions course has been open about a month now.  The basic routing remainded in tact.  Some initial thoughts about the course:

1) I like the new name, Champions better.  Champ 1UP
2) If I was the owner, I would be wondering where my $10m was spent.  I do not know the breakdown between the clubhouse and the course.  It would be interesting to know how many years it will take to realize the investment. AS
3) Hosting the first two days of the Phx Open is clearly a goal.  They delayed the opening to host the first round of Q school and are hosting this years AZ Am.  Champ 1UP
4) Given the wet and cold we have had the last month, the new turf and overseeding juggle they had to do with Q School, turf and green conditions are not great but understandable.  Champ 1UP
5) Hole by hole, each new hole is more difficult with the exception of 3 (now a shorter par3) and 17 (long par4 moved to a par5).  Champ 2UP
6) The men's club played the back plates at 6,600 yards at the Desert course.  The course was too short?  Now the men's club plays the members tees at 6,600 yards.  I have not seen anyone play the back tees.  Champ 1UP
7) Big difference off the tee, Champions is more open.  Desert course generally had four steps of rough then sage bushes.  Sage has been cleared and is largely out of play.  Fairway bunkers are now very much in play.  Champ 2UP
8)  New par 3s lack variety, I hit 9 on 2 holes and 6 on the other 3.  Champ 2UP
9) Greens are now smaller, more heavily bunkered.  Shelves have replaced several false fronts.  Champ 3UP
10) Par 4s have more variety.  Highlights include a split fairway on 5, driveable 15th and a stern finish on 18, 460, water left, bunker right.  Champ 4UP
11) Course is about 2 shots more difficult from same yardage, about 4 more difficult, tips v tips.  Champ 4UP
12) Par 5s are better.  Old 5s were basically long 4s to bomb away at.  9 now has a pond short left and some tight pin positions.  Champ 5UP
13) Par moved from 70 to 71, 17 from a 4 to a 5.  Champ 5UP
14) Greenside bunkering is much more in play.  Champ 5UP
15) New cartpaths are not paved but compressed dirt.  Champ 6UP
16) Champions price to walk in season increased from $35 to $50 in season.  Still a great value for the Valley.  Creates a real issue when the Stadium is over three times more expensive to play, a lot to pay to see the TV course.  This will most likely create access issue on the Champions.  Champ 5UP
17) Practice facility is slightly better with new chipping green.  Champ 5UP
18) New clubhouse is bigger but still largely empty.  With the Stadium clubhouse a block away, did we really need a new clubhouse.  Champ 4UP

All in all, a better experience.  If Papago is done right, walkable, reasonable golf may now be a reality in Phx.  Cheers, Tom

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TPC Scottsdale Champions (new) v Desert (old)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 09:21:15 PM »
Tom, is that $50 in season for residents only?

Since the routing hasn't been changed, I guess it's just as walkable as before, very refreshing for the Valley of the Sun!  8)

I'm planning to be in Tucson in February, maybe we can get up a GCA game.......

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TPC Scottsdale Champions (new) v Desert (old)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 09:54:24 PM »
Tom,

Thanks for the report.I look forward to playing there. I'm available in February and March.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Renli

Re:TPC Scottsdale Champions (new) v Desert (old)
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 10:15:09 PM »
Bill, it is $44 to walk currently and goes to I believe $50 on January 1, the rate is the same for all.  The course is still very walkable.  I have heard that Papago will go to a resident rate and a non resident rate that will be much higher.  

A negative that I failed to mention, they are putting a commercial building in to the west of 6, south of 7 and north of 14.  

Tony talked about getting a game together.  Please let me know when you are here, I will organize it.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:TPC Scottsdale Champions (new) v Desert (old)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 10:50:58 PM »
Tom, I'm actually planning to be in Tucson where my brother has a house; any chance we can rendezvous down there?