David McLay Kidd on Tees

[Sean_A]

This appears to be another case of the architect not giving a rat's pitooty about daily maintenance. Good luck to the poor bastard that has to walk mow those things, especially when it's a day that calls for side-to-side mowing.

Anthony

Anthony

In general I agree with you Anthony.  However, there is a certain number of clubs that have the money, time and vision to create what was created at Sebonack.  If the members are willing to go the extra mile and pay for it - why not do it?  

Ciao

[Michael Dugger]

This appears to be another case of the architect not giving a rat's pitooty about daily maintenance. Good luck to the poor bastard that has to walk mow those things, especially when it's a day that calls for side-to-side mowing.

Anthony

I love how you guys are criticizing the maintenance budget at Sebonac!!!

C'mon fellas, obviously it's not an issue at this particular venue.

[Tom_Doak]

Tony:  It's your pitooty I don't give a damn about.    I care about maintenance and construction costs.  Construction costs for those tees at Sebonack were very low because they are built out of native sand ... those huge free-form tees really only work when you're building them out of native soil or sand.  The maintenance costs shouldn't be that much either, if he just uses the same mowers from the approaches off toward the next tee; but that's up to the club to decide.

For Old Macdonald we intend to build HUGE tees that can be mowed with fairway units.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Mr. Doak, Micheal, Sean:

I'd not criticizing the budget, I'm pointing out that the greenkeeper that has to mow those tees on a day when side-to-side is called for his going to have one hell of a crappy day. I'd give details but the pictures went away. Sad.

Mr. Doak:

You really don't care about my pitooty? That hurts. No wonder Tommy left this site, it's getting viscious.

Anthony

[Sean_A]

Mr. Doak, Micheal, Sean:

I'd not criticizing the budget, I'm pointing out that the greenkeeper that has to mow those tees on a day when side-to-side is called for his going to have one hell of a crappy day. I'd give details but the pictures went away. Sad.

Anthony

What is this - some sort of Christmas spirit Connecticut style?  If a guy's job is to cut grass, he cuts grass.  Are you afraid he will get dizzy?

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Not to antagonize Anthony but I'm assuming Sebonack doesn't cut the entire tee pad daily in season (not that they couldn't)

The areas where the 4 sets of tee markers were going to be placed that day could simply be cut.
I also felt those tees were more routinely at fairway height (which is still pretty tight at Sebonack) and could be maintained with something other than a walking mower (although if being given the approach treatment as Tom suggests, that's probably a walk mower)

I doubt it takes a whole lot longer to prep those tees for daily play then it does to cut 4-5-6 separate tees.
I'd love to know from someone who knows the answer.

Jeff

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Jeff, Sean:

Thank you for the Christmas present. You both articulated a position that many on this site hold in the hearts, but deny with their mouths, and that's the fact that it's the job of the grounds crew to mow the grass, so shut up and mow. My point would be, because of some of the eye candy features of those tees mowing will be extremely difficult and will lead to scalping. And what does scalping lead to? Say it with me, "firing."

Do I think architects should make their designs maintenance friendly? Of course not, but they need to be aware of the problems it will cause for superintendents and grounds crew.

If you think I'm overstating the difficulty in mowing those tees, the next time you're in the Middletown, Conn. area give me a call and I'll get you out walk mowing tees one morning and you'll see my point.

Anthony

[jeffwarne]

Anthony,
I've walk mowed thousands of tees.

Have you played Sebonack and have you interviewed the crew and/or Super about the difficulty with the tees?
I've played there multiple times and spoken with the Super at great length and the mainteance of the tees has never come up, but other issues have.

Frankly I do think architects should build their tees (and courses) maintenance friendly.
I think you'd be suprised at how much you and Sean and I have in common in philosophy.
Tom's already pointed out the cost of building them was minimal. Wouldn't it be prudent to find out from someone who knows how much of that is mowed daily and by what mechanism?
And remember,when comparing the labor it ought to be compared to nearby courses operating in the same new money demographic(Atlantic, The Bridge, East hampton, Friar's Head) and what all goes into maintaining their tees on a daily basis. Not that money should ever be wasted but that's the market they compete in.(whether I agree or not)
Are we going to attack Friar's Head (or Sebonack) for all of their short surrounds near the greens?

If you really want to talk maintenance talk to the Supers after a 2-4 downpour-then ou'll find out what they think about their architects!