[Tom_Doak]

This is a marketing tag that has infected damn near every product known to man in the past couple of years ... every time I'm on a plane I see the ad for the negotiating seminar that is "like steroids for your career".

And I know I've seen at least two new courses described as being "like Pine Valley on steroids".

Can we stop with this now?  Steroids DID save my son's life when he was born prematurely and his lungs weren't ready for it, so I can't complain about them personally; but their abuse is killing other kids and helping to ruin the world of sports.  Being like something on steroids is not a good thing.

[jeffwarne]

It can be stopped right now.
By banning EVERY player for life involved in the recent steroid revelation.
And REattaching a negative conotation to the word.

The remaining 80% of players would do just fine, some innocence and trust could come back into the game, people would still hit .300, pitchers would still win games, people would still hit home runs- I might even attend a game again.

Imagine a study revealing that Tiger,Phil, and VJ were secretly having their caddy move their ball and their opponent's ball in the rough.

Cheating is cheating no matter how many or how few did it.
Are you really going to miss Clemens, Bonds, etc?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tom, I remember when True Blue opened, it was billed as Pine Valley on Steroids.  It may not be Pine Valley but it sure lived up to its steroid billing.

[Joe Bausch]

It seems to be generally agreed upon that money drove the steroids era.  Owners wanted attendance back after the canceled season, fans seemed to dig the long ball, etc.  And players that hit more homers got bigger contracts.

Hmmmm, let's see.  Fans of golf also dig the long ball, courses don't seem to really penalize long but slightly less accurate drivers of the ball.... you think the PGA tour instituting a drug policy just might be a good idea?  I do.  I just hope that the timing of it is better than MLB.

[jeffwarne]

Joe,
Money drives a lot of things that are illegal.
Doesn't mean you and I go out and sell crack to kids.

These guys cheated. Because there are so many, probably nothing will happen.

Which doesn't leave a lot of answers when your kids say "but everyone else is doing it"

I disagree also that more fans come to the games for the long ball and therefore owners allowed it or looked the other way.
People come to see baseball-plenty of home runs get hit anyway.
A cleaned up game might just attract MORE fans.
Either way, baseball needs to do the RIGHT thing-our kids will appreciate it someday.

[Joe Bausch]

Jeff, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression.  I hate the steroids era in baseball.  I was hoping to promote some discussion of what I think is golf people having their heads in the sand about the possibility (probability?) of 'roids in the game we love.

[jeffwarne]

Joe,
No worries.
I used to think no way in golf,but after today (yes I'm naive and was surprised at how many were involved) you're probably right. Like to think that game of honor thing still applies though.

Hank Aaron has to be sick overcoming all he overcame in the early days and later while chasing the record  .....and then watching an ungrateful, surly, doped up thug break his record (who acted like a victim throughout)

[Kyle Henderson]

Steroids are naturally occurring hormones. There are many classes of steroids that activate a multitude of functional physiological processes in the human body.

It is the use of exogenous, anabolic steroids (which have effects similar to endogenously produced testosterone) that can provide substantial advantages in certain forms of athletic competition and also lead to dire health consequences. These costs and benefits must be weighed by anybody who considers their use. Many participants on GCA are probably taking steroids, many without realizing it (e.g. inhalers for asthma, some anti-inflammatory drugs).

The issue of banning them in sanctioned competitions is no simple matter. If you establish a normal physiological range, everyone will dope themselves to the upper limit of that range – thus any genetic advantage that some athletes may have will be eliminated. Is this cheating or leveling the field?  And, of course, there will always be someone finding ways to circumvent the latest testing methods…

Returning to Mr. Doak’s original premise: There are certainly better ways to market a golf course…

How about: “Pine Valley on a strict diet and exercise regime!”

[jeffwarne]

Kyle,
Doing the right thing isn't always simple.
Try telling the parents of the dead kid who doped up to make the varsity that he was "leveling the field"

Nobody's watching you in that rough either, but I'm betting you don't move your ball.

[Tom Yost]

Tom, I remember when True Blue opened, it was billed as Pine Valley on Steroids.  It may not be Pine Valley but it sure lived up to its steroid billing.

Pimply and perpetually grumpy ?

[paul cowley]

Tom....I think the proper use of steroids is beneficial...your mention of your son being a good example.

But its overuse is harmful....similar to exaggerated breast augmentation.
It gets your attention, but is it what really what you want to appreciate on a day to day basis?

The game of golf is similar.

[Rick Shefchik]

I can think of a dozen players I've watched in the last few years who were clearly on steroids and were not mentioned in the Mitchell report. They didn't catch them all. They'll never catch them all.

I have no answer for this. Will fans continue to support a game that remains infected by substance abuse? My guess is yes, but it is possible that a resounding backlash will develop over the winter and make itself felt at the ticket window next spring.

After all, as Yogi said, if the fans don't want to come out, how are you going to stop them?

[jeffwarne]

Rick,
Don't have to catch them all.

Handle it just like the Black Sox scandal.

A few guilty parties will always slip through, but they'll always be looking over their shoulder

[Dan Kelly]

I have no answer for this. Will fans continue to support a game that remains infected by substance abuse?

Where's Kenesaw Mountain Landis when we need him?

What needs to happen is this: The Commissioner needs to take drastic steps. He needs to look at the Mitchell evidence, and suspend -- for long periods of time (years), if not for life -- everyone who got caught red-handed. And then he needs to give the same long suspension to everyone who gets caught subsequently. If some offenders (past, present, or future) never get caught, well, so be it. That's life.

Baseball would suffer terribly in the short run, of course -- but, like all great institutions, it would recover eventually, and be better off for the suffering.

The Black Sox scandal would have ruined baseball, don't you think, if not for Landis's extreme punishments? It couldn't live with the idea that gamblers were affecting the outcomes on the field.

I think the same thing could happen here. I really do. A scandal-tainted baseball really isn't Baseball anymore, is it?

Tom Doak --

Linguistic point extremely well taken.

[Dan Kelly]

Rick,
Don't have to catch them all.

Handle it just like the Black Sox scandal.

A few guilty parties will always slip through, but they'll always be looking over their shoulder

Very economically stated, Mr. Warne! (I should follow your good example.) Emoticon omitted.

[CHrisB]

Tobacco Road is "like Pinehurst on Viagra and Rogaine"

[Dan Kelly]

Tobacco Road is "like Pinehurst on Viagra and Rogaine"

The Viagra sure seems to be working. Not so sure about the Rogaine.

[Mike_Cirba]

Chris,

There is nothing wrong with either viagra or rogaine!  

All,

Anyone who thinks that steroids aren't RAMPANT in sports and that this is limited to baseball are either terribly naive or are simply deceiving themselves.

Does anyone here remember 230 pound linemen?  

I knew a local kid who was 6'3", 225 as a fullback in high school who went to Penn State.   Within 18 months he was 6'3" 278 pounds as a guard and had lost 2 inches on his waist.

People...you don't just gain 50 pounds of muscle, no matter how long you train in the gym.

Yet, we've all turned a blind eye to it as lines in the NFL feature guys who are 300 pounds and run a 40 in under 5 seconds.  

These guys would kill Jerry Kramer, yet there are more of them than you shake a stick at.  

I'm thinking we're lucky, because some of the side effects of steroids would probably make them counter-productive to golf, but the truth is that with all sports, we as a society have thrown so much money into the arena that any and every edge is routinely used.

Sportsmanship and fairness become quaint terms of losers.

[CHrisB]

Dan,
I played Tobacco Road in the early days and those mounds were pretty much bald until the Rogaine took...

[W.H. Cosgrove]

And I always thought Tobacco Road was golf on Acid?  Was I wrong?......Dude?

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,
Doing the right thing isn't always simple.
Try telling the parents of the dead kid who doped up to make the varsity that he was "leveling the field"

Nobody's watching you in that rough either, but I'm betting you don't move your ball.

Indeed, Jeff. But I wouldn't try telling the parents their dead son was a rotten cheat either. My point is that defining right from wrong isn't always black and white (depending on the issue and who your asking). Furthermore, allocating resources to curb steroid abuse in professional sports may help prevent youngsters from trying them, but there might be much greater threats to young adults that require more attention.

Drawing consensus on such a "threat hierarchy" would be complicated (e.g. parents of a kidnapping victim vs. parents of a soldier participating in Operation Iraqi Freedom vs. parents of a child that needs a liver transplant because of tainted spinach). I think the steroid issue strikes a chord more for its relevance to ethics than public health for many Americans. Ethically speaking, I prefer to live in a world where people don't move their ball in the rough and where athletes don't break records because they abuse steroids. But pragmatically, I would prefer that resources were channeled in a way that would help the most people. Statistically, steroids are not enemy #1.

Somewhat off point, the deleterious effects of steroid abuse are generally delayed. It would most-likely affect (maybe even kill) the kid later in life (e.g. a massive stroke), although in the short term it might stunt his growth, if he hasn't reached full stature before initiating the drug use.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff W:

"A few guilty parties will always slip through, but they'll always be looking over their shoulder."

I'm not too sure of that.  They didn't name any of their "big fish" by getting back positive test results -- they were all ratted out by guys in the clubhouse who make peanuts (and whose testimony can be disputed).  My impression from reading 100 pages of the report is that there are probably MANY more players involved who were not caught because nobody has made their trainers testify.

Unfortunately, it seems that the superstars can afford to stay a step ahead of the testing capability.

I was also extremely upset to learn that the Mitchell report completely avoided the subject of amphetamines in the clubhouse.  That's been an open secret for 40-50 years now, but it's illegal in the same way that steroids were illegal 5-6 years ago, and by turning a blind eye to one, the game set a precedent for turning a blind eye to all.

[jeffwarne]

I think in Tiger's case we can look at Earl and figure out where
that "man head" and body came from.(along with a incredible work ethic and strength and conditioning program)

[Michael Dugger]

I have followed the steroid story quite closely for a while now, even read Game of Shadows and a couple other books on the subject.

Tom mentioned Amphetamines being sort of a "gateway" to the stronger stuff like 'roids and what not.

We all know the story about McGwire and his "Andro."

A large problem with this issue is defining what a legal performance enhancer is and what isn't.  Major league baseball teams shove Creatine down their players throats because they know it makes athletes bigger and faster.

I pop a couple advil before playing hoops with the boys, not because it helps my performance, but because it helps my weary bones not hurt so badly afterwards.

With so many supplements out there promising to make you skinnier, increase sexual performance, etc etc etc......it become a very slippery slope defining what is acceptable and therefore legal, and what is not.

Victor Conte and the BALCO crew were bona fide architects of athletes, in a twisted sort of way.  The Cream and the Clear buffaloed testing officials for years, it was revolutionary stuff.  I'd say odds are fifty fifty both Pujols and A Rod are on something "designer" to this day, it's just undectable...for now.

Whenever the stakes are high, someone will be angling for an advantage.

Be it Steroids, HGH, uppers, cocaine, Andro, Advil, Creatine, Ibuprofen or Ben Gay.  It's so difficult to draw the line, IMHO.  

 

[Jay Flemma]

Tom, you're right...it was fine the first couple times and its become less funny or apropos every time since.

Of course there are medical benefits to steroids...don't forget, if you ever had mononucleosis when your were growing up, they gave you steroids, but everyone else is right.  The negative health hazards are staggering.

I had someone tell me in an interview the other day that her son is jaded on high school hockey right now because so many on his team have been juicing in some way.  In NJ, even a number of girls have resorted to using them to stay trim and toned without exercising...talk about designer drugs!

That's why MLB MUST punish the players caught in the Mitchell report and give them at least 50 games not 15...what kind of message will a slap on the wrist send?  The clemency of the crime will be as scandalous and indeed more damaging than the commission of the original juicing.  Remember...in the Olympics, the NCAA and under WADA/USADA, first time offense is two years.

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