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Michael Dugger

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Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« on: December 12, 2007, 04:06:37 PM »
Dear Jim,

Quite obviously you've carved out a niche in the golf course design world.  I've yet to play any of your courses, but from the looks of some of them I'd like to.  

I read the interview you did a year or so ago, but I'd love to get your take on a few other things, if you would oblige....

Would you say there are golf courses or designers which have influenced your current design philosophy?

If so, which ones and why?

Which of your designs holds the dearest spot in your own heart?

Which modern courses and designers do you admire?  Whose work do you seek out?  Anyone?

About how many books on golf course architecture are in your library???

and lastly......give us one hidden gem of a course which is not uber popular but you think is a peach.

Thanks in advance.  I look forward to learning more about your inner workings, if you dare expose them!



 
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

JESII

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 04:12:52 PM »
Michael,

There are alot of meat and potatoes in his second and third (of four total) posts...see here


  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=;action=usersrecentposts;userid=3309;user=Jim%20Engh
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 04:13:04 PM by JES II »

Michael Whitaker

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 04:14:18 PM »
Jim - Welcome to GCA.com! I hope you will continue to visit and contribute to our conversations. Variety of opinion and thought is what makes this site fantastic. Thank you for making the decision to "break the ice" and join in... this is a fun place, I think you will enjoy it!!!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

TEPaul

Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 04:18:43 PM »
Is Jim on GOLFLCLUBATLAS.com?

If so that's terrific and welcome to the website that's like a bar-room brawl on a Friday night in Dodge City every day, Jim.

i haven't seen you since Archipalooza in something like 2001. A lot's happened in the world since then.

Gary Daughters

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 04:28:31 PM »
Tom Paul's Dodge City analogy never fails to give me a good chuckle.  Someone should write a play.

I actually did have a question for Jim Engh, but so as not to overwhelm the poor guy (or chase him away in a hail of gunfire) let me just say welcome and thanks for contributing.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 04:34:42 PM by Gary Daughters »
THE NEXT SEVEN:  Alfred E. Tupp Holmes Municipal Golf Course, Willi Plett's Sportspark and Driving Range, Peachtree, Par 56, Browns Mill, Cross Creek, Piedmont Driving Club

Michael Dugger

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 04:30:16 PM »
Michael,

There are alot of meat and potatoes in his second and third (of four total) posts...see here


  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=;action=usersrecentposts;userid=3309;user=Jim%20Engh

Saw that then.  Read that already.  Carne, check.  11th at Black Rock, check.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jim Engh

Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 06:30:23 PM »
Michael
Thanks for the welcome. I assure you it is appreciated.

Regarding your questions, I will do my best.

- Influences - During the four years that I lived in England I had the opportunity to play a great many of the links courses of Scotland and Ireland. This is especially true of Ireland. I was so very moved by the randomness of the land forms and the fun it was to just walk through such settings. I wouldn't say that I try to design to this style verbatum. It is more of a mind set that is established by these crazy land forms called golf in Ireland. I made a statement about Carne after one of my first adventures there that might give perspective to my views. "this place is so crazy, it's bad and so bad , it's perfect".  

I truly like a lot of elements of many of the people in my business. It is less about following one or two designers and their work and more about taking individual features from a great many of them. I truly admire Pete Dye for having the fortitude to do things in such a way as to make the envelope bigger for the rest of us. The work of Mike Strantz really blows me away. Very creative stuff. I regret that we never met before his death. However, I have formed a wonderful relationship with Forrest Fezler and have tried to steal some of Mike's genius from him.    

   

Dearest spot in my heart - I don't intend to sound flip, but it is a little like choosing your favorite child. So much of your heart and soul goes into the process that you eventually feel a bit like a parent. As with any artform, "once you show your work to someone, it is no longer yours".

I might say that Medicine Hole GC, a nine hole public course in the Killdeer, North Dakota, pop. 600 is very dear to my heart. It was payed for through bake sales, car washes and raffles. My staff and I along with Ricky Maher of ACC Golf construction did alot of the constuction work for nothing. We did not pay for a meal or a beer the entire time. It is truly a 'seat of the pants' place, but it is a lot of fun on a sweet site.          


Design books - Tough to answer specifically, as many of the general golf books tend to overlap on topics. 100's?? I will tell you some of my favorites that are in my library. The Architectural Side of Golf by Weathered and  Simpson, 1929. Golf Courses Design, Construction and Upkeep edited by Martin F. Sutton, 1950. The Links by Robert Hunter, 1926. Design for Golf by Weathered and Simpson, 1952. Down the Fairway by Robert T. Jones Jr. and O B Keeler, 1927

Sleeper course - certainly my love for Carne back in the 90's before it was discovered might qualify. But it is no longer an unknown. Really any sand greens course. The experience is so unlike anything as I know golf today and they are disapearing fast.

I hope that is of assistance.

Happy Holidays

Jim          

Michael Dugger

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 06:43:39 PM »
Jim,

Sweet!  Much thanks.

It was good to hear you mention Mike Strantz.  I was pimping that guy a decade ago and my buddies would go, "who?"

I too love Hunter's book.  First "classic" I ever read.  Makes golf courses sound so romantic!

So......aside from the Carne project, do you ever forsee yourself doing a genuine links style course?  

Ya know....sandy soil.  Long grasses.  Firm turf....
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jim Engh

Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 06:46:12 PM »
Michael

I would love to find the right site that do justice the true links beauty. They seem to be a bit rare these days.

Jim

Kalen Braley

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 06:59:15 PM »
Jim,

Thanks for the comments in response to Michaels questions.

I have a question as well concerning your unique style of bunkering.  I'm curious as to what was the inspiration behind your long and slender bunkering.  Did you see something similar in a golf course somewhere, or were you tinkering around with the dozer/backhoe one day and kind of discovered it?

Kalen
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 07:00:05 PM by Kalen Braley »

Cliff Hamm

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 07:29:24 PM »
 
I might say that Medicine Hole GC, a nine hole public course in the Killdeer, North Dakota, pop. 600 is very dear to my heart. It was payed for through bake sales, car washes and raffles. My staff and I along with Ricky Maher of ACC Golf construction did alot of the constuction work for nothing. We did not pay for a meal or a beer the entire time. It is truly a 'seat of the pants' place, but it is a lot of fun on a sweet site.          


Jim..I want to salute you for building a course gratis.  I have strong beliefs that we all need to give back in our own way.  Being a public course golfer, outside of the country club for a day mentality with excessive greens fees, there are few opportunities to play courses by 'name' architects.  I very much appreciate your willingness to forgo income for the better feeling of building a course that is 'dear to your heart'.  I only wish that more architects would give back and build munis, etc. that were affordable for the masses.

Wishing you also a Happy Holiday

Cliff

Andy Troeger

Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 08:58:00 PM »
Jim,
Just curious if you had an inspiration for the style of green you've used at #6 at Pradera and #5 at Redlands Mesa?

Your comment about Pete Dye is interesting. I hadn't made the connection but part of the reason I've enjoyed his courses and yours is that they do push the envelope (in somewhat different ways) and do something different which that creates a challenge that is fun to tackle again and again.

Brian_Ewen

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 10:04:34 PM »
Jim
If my info. is correct you designed Dragon Hills for IMG ?

Were you involved in any of other IMG designs in Thailand ?

Best Regards
Brian

Steve Sayre

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 10:15:37 PM »
I "greener" than Jim and thrilled to be part of the community....

Jim, where do you recommend bunking in Belmullet?  I have got to get back to Carne soon.....our visit pre-dated your work and even then it was an incredible day in the dunes.  Long drive there and back from Sligo.......hotels or B&B's that are local?

Thanks!

Jordan Wall

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 11:06:14 PM »
However, I have formed a wonderful relationship with Forrest Fezler and have tried to steal some of Mike's genius from him.    


Isn't that the gut who played the last hole at Oakmont in shorts a while ago in a US Open?

Sorry Jim, I know it really has nothing to do with the thread, but thats too funny...welcome aboard, I'll be gladto read what you have to say!

Cheers,
Jordan

Greg Murphy

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 11:17:17 PM »
Jim,

Last September I had the good fortune to experience Medicine Hole. Nearly a decade ago I was involved in something similar at Katepwa Beach, about four hours north west of Medicine Hole, across the border in Canada. A place and a story like Medicine Hole is such a refreshing antidote to the bloat that seems to have so afflicted the game of golf. It is an inspiring example of what regular folk may accomplish when their focus is placed squarely on the game rather than all the trappings and proof positive that nine-holers needn’t be relegated to puny versions of the real thing. The game needs more places and more stories like Medicine Hole!

Adam Clayman

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2007, 12:23:34 AM »
Is Jim on GOLFLCLUBATLAS.com?

If so that's terrific and welcome to the website that's like a bar-room brawl on a Friday night in Dodge City every day, Jim.

i haven't seen you since Archipalooza in something like 2001. A lot's happened in the world since then.

Tom, Was that the archipalooza at Sand Hills? Or was that 02'?

If so, Corey pulled out the pictures for me yesterday. He had it set-up as a "Name that Architect" game, just for me.

BTW, Jim was one of the few I recognized. I got Devries, but it was a lucky guess, Tom Doak and Brad Klein. Missed Baxter Spann and Bill Coore who looked nothing like he did last year. But that's no surprise, he always appears different every time I see him. Seeing names from this board like Brian Phillips, Lester George and Gil Hanse made me think it was a special time for all these soon to be more successful in the future archies.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 12:24:19 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2007, 11:31:20 AM »
Jim Engh, I'd like to join the welcome wagon, and I hope I'll get a chance to play a course of yours soon.  Medicine Hole sounds like a perfect place to start.  I second Cliff Hamm's praise for an archie who gives back by doing something like that for a small community effort.  I believe that if golf can live in the small communities like that, then golf will truly be a healthy sport that sustains in the public's heart.   I also believe that it shows the architect's greater sense of design creativity because they MUST do more with meager resources, which hopefully leads to the real core of the archie's golf design sensibilites.  If you are forced to toss all the bells and whistles aside for economies sake, yet have pride to do a good playable course, you are going to get right down to your core.   I believe Bunkerhill boys did that with Wild Horse for the same economy of construction reasons.

Quote
...Corey pulled out the pictures for me yesterday. He had it set-up as a "Name that Architect" game, just for me.

Adam, from the 'frozen tundra' to the 'freezing prairie' perhaps there is a good side to the hunkered down, off season.  I can't think  of a better golf guy to be stuck in the cabin with than Corey.  Too bad I can't sit in on a few rounds of cut throat cribbage or something.  Nice to see he is keeping your mind busy...  ;) ;D 8) )
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2007, 12:26:45 PM »
I hope Jim makes a contribution here like so many of the other architects and doesn't just come on this site to promote his own courses.

I would like to know if he has taken the time to play C&C Colorado Golf Club or driven out to play Ballyneal and what his thoughts are on those golf courses?

Tim Leahy

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2007, 01:02:13 PM »
I recently played Fossil Trace in Colorado and the quarry holes there are amazing work. Loved the course and look forward to playing more of your courses.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Welcoming Jim Engh to GCA.com the right way....
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2007, 04:52:04 PM »
Jim welcome to the treehouse. It is always great to have a distinguished member of the profession on board.