[Dan Herrmann]

Just sitting here with no life, watching The Golf Channel watching Golf Central in December

Feature came on about Greg Norman.  He's got a show coming up, but the tease shows him acting as a golf course architect.

Says he can do this for you is you hire him to design a course:
I can bring you the "shark" logo to use in your marketing
I can do golf course management
I can handle the course's "production"
I can bring soft goods with Greg Norman apparel
I can bring hard goods with MacGregor
I can supply beef for your club restraunt
I can supply wine for your diners

He's so darn smug...  I don't know why, but he sure rubs me the wrong way.

Anyway, back to reality... In the past, were other architects interested in trying to sell themselves as the 'whole package' to their clients, or is The Shark breaking new ground?

[JESII]

Dan,

Interesting take...can't argue your view, but I disagree that it makes him a bad guy...

[Andrew Summerell]

Isn't that just advertising? I don't see the problem.

[Dan Herrmann]

I made a mistake - I didn't mean to say he was a jerk.  The fact that he rubs me the wrong way sure doesn't mean I'm right.  Thanks - I changed the thread title.  

I was actually more interested in whether other architects have ever so geared toward marketing their entire corporate entity to a client.

[Philippe Binette]

like it on not it's called offering your services - it's business...

and it has nothing to do with golf architecture.

[David_Tepper]

I don't think Norman is not doing anything that Jack Nicklaus did not lay the groundwork for over the past 20 years. He is just taking the soup-to-nuts, "buy into my lifestyle" concept further. Norman has been a VERY successful businessman, probably more successful than any pro golf to date.

[Randy Thompson]

Jacks been the entire route, but wine and beef is new terriorty for sure. Boy if I was a developer, it would make it tempting to hire him, I mean thats great, wine and beef, who cares if you will end up with a good golf product or just another dime a dozen golf course.

[John Foley]

Dan,

He's become the brand. In the world of business many many companies brand defines them. Look at the big consumer goods companies J&J, P&G you can tell me their stuff is very different from the generic product, it's their brand that claims the marketshare.

All he is doing is pushing that brand to maximize his marketshare.

I say good for him.

He's got to be cautious he does not spread him too thin and dilute the value of the brand.

[mike_beene]

Throw in Chris Evert and I really dont care about the golf course.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Is Greg Norman the most obvious self-promoting, self-marketing PERSON - ever?

I'm not anti Greg (well, not completely) but I can't quite picture myself at my Shark course, in my Sharkapparel, drinking a quick Sharkbeer before a nice bottle of SharkRed with my Sharksteak. I would however, love to watch the reality show of such a shangri la should it ever come to be. I should hope all the members go the whole hog and dye their hair too.

[David_Tepper]

Thinking about it a little more, you could probably make a case that Norman has been one of the most successful athletes as a businessman from ANY sport, not just golf. He is way more than a celebrity selling his endorsement. He has a equity stake in almost all of the businesses in which he gets involved.    

[Jason McNamara]

What's the Dizzy Dean quote?  "It ain't bragging if you can back it up."

Oh, and Greg can also grow the grass you'll put on that course.

Rather impressive to be so successful in so many areas.  Is there anyone else anywhere near this level?  Joe Gibbs and Roger Staubach come to mind, but neither is as diversified.

ps to Dan:  I realize there's a writer's strike, but Golf Central on a Wednesday night?  Need the Tiger-whatever pre-match report?  

[mike_beene]

I still feel extremely sorry for the guy.Sure he blew a few tournaments,but he had a lot of bad luck(Mize,Azinger,Pavin)Money is all over our world.I still cant get over him only winning 2 majors.The fact he kept coming back for more says something.

[John Kavanaugh]

I own a Shark pullover with a Lawsonia logo.  When I saw the man at the  97 Masters he had the finest man ass I had ever seen in my life until this week.  Has anyone else seen the new Beckham Armani underwear ad?  I think it moved.

[Justin Ryan]

Isn't that just advertising? I don't see the problem.

Or vertical integration?  Clearly it is more stimulating and interesting for him to run a business empire than to hack it around in meaningless senior tour events.  I applaud him.

[Dan Herrmann]

All good points - I appreciate the responses.

So - has the quality of Norman's architecture suffered because he's spread thin?  I've not played a Norman course, and, therefore, can't really provide an opinion here.

[Billsteele]

JK-With your recent comments about "man love" and your fascination with Greg Norman's bum, I'm beginning to wonder about you...not that there's anything wrong with that. I have been in close proximity to Norman a few times at the old World Series of Golf and at the Memorial, physically, his broad shoulders stood out to me.

I see nothing wrong with Norman trying to capitalize on his fame by branding himself. Shameless self-promotion lies at the heart of capitalism. He seems to have taken to the extreme what many before him have done. Trent Jones pushed the concept of the signature design. However, those who are purely architects do not have the cache on their own to move a clothing line (although the idea of a Tom Doak minimalist line of soft goods is intriguing). Nicklaus and Palmer have certainly branded themselves in areas outside of strictly playing golf and have received little criticism for it. Celebrities, in any field of endeavor, have the right to utilize their fame as they see fit to benefit themselves or their families. While some take it to a distasteful extreme, absent some element of fraud or illegality, they have every right to do so.

On a side note, a few years ago, I had the chance to talk to a few people who met and dealt with Norman while he was designing a course near Cincinnati. The one fascinating thing they all commented on was that he was very engaging while talking about the course, his design philosophy, wine or any other venture that he was involved in. According to them, the only thing he didn't seem to enjoy talking about was his playing career.

[John Kavanaugh]

JK-With your recent comments about "man love" and your fascination with Greg Norman's bum, I'm beginning to wonder about you...not that there's anything wrong with that. I have been in close proximity to Norman a few times at the old World Series of Golf and at the Memorial, physically, his broad shoulders stood out to me.

I don't think there is anything unusual with admiring the athletic physique of another man.  I started a thread a couple of years ago about the most beautiful men in golf which led to some interesting discussion.  My personal favorite was seeing a young Sam Snead and Dean Martin on the same screen.

I did click by Norman this last week while he was contending for some silly tournament and felt a little ill seeing him in all black with that silly hat.  Much like seeing the current Diane Keaton walk away from the camera in white slacks is just wrong, I believe it is time for Norman to accept his age and get a makeover.  

Speaking of age...Who can't get enough of Brett Favre at 38?

[JohnV]

jk,  is this the picture you mean?



You've got to love Photoshop if you are advertising.
 

[Kirk Gill]

Greg Norman is just doing what a lot of corporate entities are doing now - attempting to provide "solutions" instead of just "product."

Instead of shopping around for the various things you need, you "partner" with a company that provides everything including the expertise to make it all work.



Should I have used the word "allegedly" just before the word "provides" in the previous sentence?

[tlavin]

Norman is obviously larger than life individual and a master of promotion.  In the corporate world, it's called advertising, but when you have a single person (Jordan, Trump, Norman etc.) people take a shot at the person and call them a shameless self-promoter.  When McDonald's does it, everybody shrugs and says, it's advertising.  Perhaps a bit of a double standard.

Norman is a lot different from the typical jock who endorses a product or wears a company's underwear.  He is a real businessman.  I'd invest in just about anything Norman is doing.  From golf products, to golf courses, to wine to Greg Norman beef, it's all about branding and quality.

[Chris McCuaig]

Does anyone else find that Greg uses a lot of big words and long sentences, but doesn't actually say much?

Having said that I have a friend who hired Greg for a project and has been VERY impressed with him and his team.

Cheers

Chris

[David_Tepper]

By the way, Norman is playing this week (so far, not badly) in the South African Airways Open.  You can catch his Shark-ness on the Golf Channel.

[Andy Ryall]

Funny I saw this today - due to my insomnia last night I was watching My World with Greg N at 3:30 on The Golf Channel.   I realized his cross-promotional abilities prior to watching but when you stop to think about the diversity of the products he oversees, its mind-numbing.   I think he gets a lot of what he does right – I can speak to his wines and his apparel.  But how much is too much?  I do hope I look 25% as good when I get to 51......

[Kalen Braley]

Hey,

I wear Shark golf pants and they are great.  Lightweight, nice fabric, and can even double for slacks to wear to work.

I would agree the most with the comments made by Terry.  When you buy Shark products, in large part you are buying him.  Don't see any harm in advertising what he can sell to you.

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