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John Kavanaugh

What is going to be the future of how creative people in the architecture world get paid when everything goes on the internet.  I don't think anyone is going to pay for internet subscriptions, we have been spoiled already by the free content.  I also don't see how advertising works well and see rates going nowhere but down.

SuperNews was the first major golf trade magazine to go otnet, how long before others like GolfWeek and Travel and Leasure go the same route?  Are plans being made, ideas being formed and how will what comes out of the writers stike affect the industry?  

Will internet content ever hold the same weight as hard copy?  I don't think it does today but wonder if my sons generation will ever see a difference.  He claims his laptop is now obsolete since the introduction of the iPhone and he is an engineer for peets sake.

Phil Benedict

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 10:11:06 AM »
Hard copy is in trouble.  Devices keep improving as does wireless connectivity.  The generation that grew up on computers is comfortable with devices.  Newsprint is expensive and environmentally unfriendly.

Internet content continues to make inroads against traditional media.  It's very democratic and allows for fresh voices to be heard.  Mainstream journalists hate it.  

I thought the writers' strike only involved the entertainment industry, rather than print journalism in general.

Eric Smith

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 10:14:15 AM »
Good questions John.  As far as internet content and hard copy holding the same weight, I'll say it can't be so any longer.  I, for some odd reason, still get the newspaper delivered to the house but I never read it.  It's yesterday's news, sometimes the day before yesterday's news.  I'll have already read those stories 24 hours earlier on the web.  

Also, I can relate to your son's claim. I stopped taking my laptop home from the office exactly 10 days ago.  

11 days ago I purchased an iPhone.  


John Kavanaugh

Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 10:17:18 AM »
The writers strike does currently involve only the entertainment industry.  I just think it is going to set a precedent for other creative arts.

I agree that newsprint is environmentally unfriendly in that I consider magazines to be nothing more than huge bacteria transfer devices.  It sickens me to think of the number of people who handle both magazines in the mail and worse at news stands.  Have you ever seen the guys who deliver those things or stand and read for free in airports and bookstores.

Jim_Kennedy

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 01:08:55 PM »
JK,
Writers still get paid for their work and online publications still charge their advertisers. What does a 'free' subscription to SuperNews online cost them, vs. the price of paper, printers, and distribution for the 'free' hard copy? Signing you up for a scrip by simply taking your email address is a number that advertisers look at. Another is that little hits-counter you see at the bottom of some pages, racking up the numbers on that baby translates into dollars.  

It's got to be almost seamless for an ongoing magazine to make the transition. They already have staff, contributing writers and editors, and a database of subscribers that will easily move from print to screen. It will probably save some that would otherwise fade into oblivion and possibly encourage others to jump into the market.

I imagine that someday in the future hard copy will be mostly gone, but you can always print a copy of online content to take into the head with you.  
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 01:20:38 PM »
I was talking to a guy last weekend who works for USA Today -- they're looking for more and more exclusive web content (blogs, etc.) to keep page views as high as possible. That's how they generate advertising for the online version of the paper -- the number of eyeballs they can attract.

Newspapers are becoming much more like television. You have a few premium sites with reduced advertising that people are willing to pay for (think HBO), but most of the web content is "free", like over-the-air TV, and crammed with ads.

Can somebody who has an iPhone tell me whether it's at all practical for word processing? I can't see abandoning a computer for an iPhone if I can't write on it.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mike McGuire

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 01:34:49 PM »
Rick-

An iphone is not a word processor. It has a virtual keyboard that is hard to use. Cut and paste is not an option.

John Foley

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »
ESPN.com does a great job on Internet onlyt content.

The only was to get to read Peter Gammons is to join up as an insider there.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Brad Klein

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 01:58:25 PM »
Among the many distrubition pressures that print confronts is the cost of mailing a copy out -- about $1 per copy of Golfweek, as I recall.

Ten years ago when we started thinking seriously about adapting to the Web, I used to think that print was permanent and the Web was fleeting, superficial and left no enduring record. Now I've come to see it's actually the other way around, that print gets put away (unless you digitally log everything) whereas there's permanent access to Web-available material and you can always go back and revise, correct and update it. Moreover, the quality of search engines these days and their scope (Google for one) means that Web-based searches are actually far more accurate and comprehensive than the hit or miss nature of old-style print research.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 02:00:58 PM by Brad Klein »

Tom Dunne

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 02:34:44 PM »
There's so much going on here it's hard to know where to start. Maybe by opining that John K's opening should read "if", not "when". People have been writing print's headstone for years and it still keeps chugging along. And certain companies have lost an awful lot of money sticking a fork in print. Anyone enjoying an "E-book" at the moment?

I can't speak for SuperNews' decision to go exclusively online, but I feel confident in saying that their needs as a pub are quite different from those of Golfweek or T+L Golf (which are both consumer magazines, not trades, incidentally). What it comes down to is that advertisers are going to continue to seek out the most effective ways to reach potential customers. At the moment, the NUMBER ONE way to do that is through PRINT journalism (ahead of TV, because people can fast-forward or obliterate the commercials entirely, which is why 30 Rock is now in the ridiculous meta-position of making fun of its own egregious product placements).

I won't deny that the golden age of print has come and gone. We're not going to see thrice-daily newspapers ever again. But the golden age of radio is long gone, too, and as a medium it's surviving quite well (especially in other parts of the world--hell, even in this country, people are now PAYING for radio. I'm guessing this was unthinkable in 1956.).

So, is the medium the message or is the MESSAGE the message. People repeatedly demonstrate their willingness to pay for unique CONTENT, even if they say they won't. Ultimately, media outlets have to decide what is the best vehicle to deliver their content. My sense is that for the foreseeable future, it's not a binary either/or, print vs. online, it's BOTH--a successful outlet will use the two to support and cross-promote each other, taking advantage of each medium's inherent strengths and weaknesses.

Now, I'd like to type more but I have to get back to work!  

 :) :)

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 03:57:37 PM »
I've often wondered how the flow of information will affect architects. It has to reduce fees long term, IMHO.

There are many supplier specs out there, theoretically allowing a club doing a project to download them just as easily as a gca could provide them.  You would pay the gca for the convenience of not doing it yourself, but somehow wouldn't think of it like paying a surgeon (i.e. 90% of fee for knowing where to cut, 10% for the actual cut)

Over the years, a few young gca's have tried to start mail order "greens plans for $500" services.  The net would make that easier than ever and a club could think it could pick "a Green No. 94" for that fee, and have the contractor adapt it to their site, and ignore the "deep thought" a gca provides that might make something else a better choice.  

For that matter, it might affect contractors, too.  Its easier than ever to find out what they bid when it comes time to price your job out.

The survivors in the biz will be the celebrity designers, at least as far as I can see.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan King

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 04:00:21 PM »
My younger brother is on the WGA board, and we've had discussions about the Internet in the past. I think they are making a mistake looking for a fixed rate for each show or episode. The problem with their negotiations is the writers feel they got screwed on DVDs and don't want to see that happen again.

As some one who has been involved in the Web for longer than most, I got to say, the people envisioning how the Web will make money are very much stuck in twentieth-century thought process. The people using the Web aren't. The content providers are thinking they can just take what works in the old distribution method and use it on the Web. The people buying think things have changed and they should get to participate in the savings.

To sell a song, movie, article, etc. for roughly the same as in twentieth-century distribution paradigm won't work for buyers. To charge 99¢ a song or $14 for a movie doesn't work because the buyers are more than aware selling something over the Internet saves money. It costs no more to distribute the 100,000,000 copy as it does to distribute the first.

The answer could be micro charges. Selling 100,000,000 songs for a nickel makes more money than selling 1,000,000 songs for 99¢ ($5,000,000>$990,000. But producers can’t sell like this because previous deals are worked out with artists, etc… by the song, with artists getting a fixed amount per song. What need to happen are new negotiations that give producers opportunities to work with micro-charges, and still pay artists their fair share.

A print mechanism could be something like charging 0.1¢ per article accessed, with the charges accumulating or debiting from an account. Putting together distribution conglomerates, so the reader has access to a variety of sources would then make it more appealing for the reader.

Rather than Brad Klein getting a fixed amount for an article he writes, he would get a percentage. Say he writes an article that gets a million readers, at half a penny per reader, that would be $5,000 and he might have negotiated a 50 percent share, or $2,500 for himself. The more people willing to spend the 0.5¢ the more everyone makes, with almost no change to the distribution cost. (Of course the drawback would be if he only gets 1,000 hits, his share would be $2.50. But since content on the Internet can live forever, he might be getting those $2.50 cheques for years to come :))

Micro-charging will also reduce the problem of piracy. Why steal what you can buy legitimately buy for half a penny?

Cheers,
Grandan King
Quote
I must confess that I've never trusted the Web. I've always seen it as a coward's tool. Where does it live? How do you hold it personally responsible? Can you put a distributed network of fiber-optic cable "on notice"? And is it male or female? In other words, can I challenge it to a fight?
 --Stephen Colbert

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 04:35:22 PM »
Dan,

I think your observations are dead on. I'm not optimistic that we'll soon see a re-negotiation of contracts that will allow for micro-charges, but otherwise piracy will run the music industry, for one, into bankruptcy. My kids simply can't conceive of buying CDs anymore, no matter how often I've had the intellectual property talk with them. It's not just the industry honchos who have to come to grips with the new paradigm; the unions do, too. My guess is that kind of agreement will be years in coming.

The other problem I see is creating micro-charging for works that were never intended to be mass-marketed, but rather depended on a limited number of sales at a premium price. Architectural plans, for instance.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 05:49:02 PM »
Quote:

"Rather than Brad Klein getting a fixed amount for an article he writes, he would get a percentage. Say he writes an article that gets a million readers, at half a penny per reader, that would be $5,000 and he might have negotiated a 50 percent share, or $2,500 for himself. The more people willing to spend the 0.5¢ the more everyone makes....."

Now, how would that affect writing, to be so directly compensated?

First off, every article from bed bugs to golf architecture would have "Hot Sex!' in the lead, no? ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Kyle Harris

Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 05:53:41 PM »
The sound that this thread makes is of a paradigm shifting without a clutch.*

You want to know how things will work at the speed of the internet? Do some research on Linux... The thought processes on this thread remind me of a car designed in 1894 using the same buggy idea and simply sticking an engine out where the horse would normally be.

*Line graciously stolen from Dilbert, circa 1995

JESII

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 07:46:32 PM »
Kyle,

Don't pose yourself too much an expert...you might have to answer a question some time...

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 08:26:04 PM »
Jeff Brauer writes:
Now, how would that affect writing, to be so directly compensated?

Right now publication is broken. Advertisers have figured out they want more than just eyeballs. They want to control the content. When I was working at GolfObserver, Shackelford had some wonderful articles we couldn’t ever put up because we knew they would piss-off Titelist. I’m sure all writers have been faced with toning down or tossing out their writing because of advertisers. If the reader pays, there won’t be any reason for the writer to tone down what they say. Matter of fact, controversy will sell more copy. This is one of the attractions of blogging – and why advertised supported blogging is so wrong.

But what is wrong with blogging is there is no editor, publisher or promotion. Sure, Brad could set up his own Web site and get 100 percent of the fee. But it would be up to him to edit, fact check, add photos and graphics, promote and collect the fee. He could also continue to work with a publisher, who would negotiate to give him a percentage of what is collected. You might even have conglomerates of publishers, all cross promoting various writers and publishers. Perhaps this is the future for the googles and yahoos.

Once people get in the habit of paying for good content, there are countless other things could be done. Sites such as this one or Geoff’s could get a cut for sending paying customers to articles, or even syndicate it on their own Web site, still getting a cut.  

This system also doesn’t necessarily eliminate the advertising model. Readers want free content, they can still read the free content. Just be aware, it is sponsor approved content.

First off, every article from bed bugs to golf architecture would have "Hot Sex!' in the lead, no?

That might work short-term, but are you going to believe a site that misrepresents themselves for long?

Cheers,
Grandan King
Quote
Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement.
  --Samuel Johnson

John Kavanaugh

Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2007, 09:01:10 PM »

I can't speak for SuperNews' decision to go exclusively online, but I feel confident in saying that their needs as a pub are quite different from those of Golfweek or T+L Golf (which are both consumer magazines, not trades, incidentally).


Correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the bulk of Golfweek subscriptions are sent out for free to people and golf courses in the industry.  Even for those who do pay, the cost to mail the magazine exceeds revenue received.  You can not buy the magazine at Borders or Barnes & Noble or any airport in the country.  This is why I call it a trade and not a consumer magazine.

I love the idea of product placement in golf.  We all see what the pros play on tour and it influences many purchases.  So, Golfweek has a picture of Tiger on the cover and Nike gets advertising from whatever logo Tiger may sport in clear view.  When does Golfweek begin to charge Nike for the cover or charge Callaway and lead with Phil...When do they become MTV and scramble logoes who do not pony up.  I see that as an internet revenue stream that could span every type of interest.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 09:06:19 PM by John Kavanaugh »

Kyle Harris

Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2007, 09:06:31 PM »
Kyle,

Don't pose yourself too much an expert...you might have to answer a question some time...

It's more a generational thing. Tom Dunne's post seems to get it the most. I hate e-books, by the way because computers and electronic media are not the forum by which one can disseminate that sort of information, the fit is the square peg/round hole analogy.

One cannot expect the computer to replace paper, nor the computer to be adaptable to the methods held tried and true with paper.

Bill Gayne

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Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2007, 09:17:00 PM »
 I don't think anyone is going to pay for internet subscriptions, we have been spoiled already by the free content.  I also don't see how advertising works well and see rates going nowhere but down.


Thanks for the heads-up. I've just put the order in for the morning to bet the farm on a short of Google and Yahoo.  When they get wiped out, the drinks are on me.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 09:22:47 PM »

I agree that newsprint is environmentally unfriendly in that I consider magazines to be nothing more than huge bacteria transfer devices.  It sickens me to think of the number of people who handle both magazines in the mail and worse at news stands.  Have you ever seen the guys who deliver those things or stand and read for free in airports and bookstores.

John,

I spent about three years of my youth as a Washington Post paper boy and I would get my arms and hands covered in that black news ink. I'm thinking about filing a class action lawsuit on behalf of America's youth that handled the environmentally unfriendly material without full understanding of the risk. Lately I've been developing a nervous twitch and an itch.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The writers strike and the future of architecture dissemination
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 11:16:03 PM »
Kyle Harris writes:
I hate e-books, by the way because computers and electronic media are not the forum by which one can disseminate that sort of information, the fit is the square peg/round hole analogy.

I love books. I have a reasonably large library to prove it. But as a history student, I spend hours searching through my library for information I know I have somewhere. Digitize the books and it will make searching that much easier. I’m not a fan of e-books either, but if it makes searching through my library easier, cool. Ideally I’d like to still own books, but get some sort of decent book scanner so I could digitize it and database it after I was done.

Still I’m betting eventually I would learn to deal with e-books.

One cannot expect the computer to replace paper, nor the computer to be adaptable to the methods held tried and true with paper.

I read three papers every morning. I could get much of the same info on the Web, but I don’t. The beauty of the paper is turning the page and reading something I had no idea I was interested in. This doesn’t happen as frequently on the Web.

But I recognize all the newspapers and magazines I read are a waste of resources. It makes no sense and at some point I’m going to stop reading so many hard copies. I only subscribe to a couple of magazines, when I used to subscribe to dozens. I’m sure I will be cutting down the number of papers I read in the future.

Cheers,
Grandan
Quote
Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested: that is, some books are to be read only in parts, others to be read, but not curiously, and some few to be read wholly and with diligence and attention.
 --Francis Bacon