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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Crooked Stick tweeking
« on: December 12, 2007, 02:19:05 AM »
A great course trying to become greater



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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2007, 07:05:13 AM »
Robert,
  Do you know if Mr. Dye is pushing for the changes? Seems like they are always doing something with this course....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2007, 07:09:49 AM »
Anthony:

I can't believe you asked that question!

There is nobody at Crooked Stick who can hold Mr. Dye back from making changes he wants to make, and there is CERTAINLY nobody who's going to suggest anything different.
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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2007, 07:36:45 AM »
Tom
  You are correct....If there wasn't a Pete Dye Golf Club, Crooked Stick would be "Pete Dye Golf Club."  ;)

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2007, 07:43:40 AM »
For all the tweaking Crooked Stick gets, it has lost some of its design integrity and coherence over the years with each successive wave of changes that Dye makes on it. And has anybody notice how many absurd little trees are plastered all over the front nine? Badly done, in my view.
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Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 08:05:39 AM »
I wish I'd seen the original version of Crooked Stick. Impossible these days.
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jeffmingay.com

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 09:04:06 AM »
Brad,
  I've heard similar comment sthat Mr. Dye has tweaked with Crooked Stick too much and it's lost it's orgianl character. Do you think the changes are to gain better rankings , keep up with technology or something else....

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 09:04:29 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 11:00:57 AM »
Dye is nearly obsessed with keeping some of his courses tournament tough. He was shocked at the '91 PGA watching Daly blast the ball 40-yards past where he (Dye) had intended the landing areas for Crooked Stick to be. I have not seen the course in several years but when last there in late 1990s could literally see the layers of changes in the place and was disappointed -- though still love the layout, strategy, basic intent.
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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 11:13:27 AM »
Quote from: Kelly Blake Moran on December 12, 2007, 10:57:17 AM
How high is the water table on the site.  Is it necessary to do that much fill for a bunker, or is that the Dye "style" now.  In other words is it not practical to go down to create the bunkers?

Kelly, it does seem to be the current Dye bunker style these days. Personally, I really like that kind of look, but I would imagine most wouldn't because it doesn't look natural.
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Chris_Clouser

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 11:19:26 AM »
Brad is correct in his assessment.  

I've seen the course go through several changes between visits over the last 20 years.  

Still a great course, but was perhaps much better in its initial form.
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Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 11:29:56 AM »
Unfortunately I've never visited Crooked Stick; have always wanted to though.

The photos above suggest Mr. Dye is bringing his more "modern" aesthetic to Crooked Stick. Is this an accurate assessment?

If so, I presume this could be a slow erasing of the uniqueness of his orignal design there; which, on a grand scale, is certainly unfortunate.  
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jeffmingay.com

Tom Roewer

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 12:21:34 PM »
Quote from: Chris_Clouser on December 12, 2007, 11:19:26 AM
Brad is correct in his assessment.  

I've seen the course go through several changes between visits over the last 20 years.  

Still a great course, but was perhaps much better in its initial form.

I would opine that a great side by side look would be to llok at The Golf Club from beginning and now, and compare to Crooked Stick as they were built at the same time.
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Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 12:28:55 PM »
Quote from: Kelly Blake Moran on December 12, 2007, 10:57:17 AM
How high is the water table on the site.  Is it necessary to do that much fill for a bunker, or is that the Dye "style" now.  In other words is it not practical to go down to create the bunkers?

I don't know precisely, but I live <10 miles from Crooked Stick and it's all perfectly flat between here and there.

It's rained for the last 2 days here and my yard is very very squishy with water pooling in the few low spots.

Just from driving around the area, water definitely pools easily.

So it's likely this bunkering  is necessary.  But again I don't know that exact piece of property.
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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 12:40:46 PM »
I live near there - I would be surprised if the water table had anything to do with the bunker construction.
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Tony Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 01:56:56 PM »
I have a couple of Class A PGA friends who have played in the annual invitational at Crooked Stick. I believe the name of the event is the Pete Dye Invitational i.e. members, guests and pro's. The thing that has shocked me is how they reference the course as easy.... I was under the impression that Crooked Stick was a worthy test, but these guys swear that without wind it is not much of a test ::) ::)

After seeing the photos, I find that hard to believe...
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TaylorA

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 03:35:37 PM »
At first glance, it appears they're attempting to put the rather poor TPC Louisiana bunkers in at Crooked Stick. Yikes.
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Paul Saathoff

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 08:34:01 PM »
Does anybody know anyone at crooked stick?  I've lived nearby for most of my life and have never seen the place.  Would love to just walk the course while I'm home for the holidays
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2007, 10:45:28 AM »
Quote from: Paul Saathoff on December 12, 2007, 08:34:01 PM
Does anybody know anyone at crooked stick?  I've lived nearby for most of my life and have never seen the place.  Would love to just walk the course while I'm home for the holidays

It seems as if there is a lot of anger or disappointment toward Mr. Dye regarding this course. Just a thought, but maybe these changes are coming from the USGA. The Senior Open is due up there and it seems like it is tough for them to leave anything alone. I saw NCR go through similar tweaking in preparation for the 2005 Senior Open. NCR did turn out pretty well, maybe Crooked Stick will as well. I can't say that I thought anything needed to be done at #3, but on 4 and 5? Well, maybe.

Jason Connor,

You could very easily be on to something, it seemed pretty wet the last time I was out there to play.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Crooked Stick tweeking
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2007, 10:47:23 AM »
Quote from: TonyP on December 12, 2007, 01:56:56 PM
I have a couple of Class A PGA friends who have played in the annual invitational at Crooked Stick. I believe the name of the event is the Pete Dye Invitational i.e. members, guests and pro's. The thing that has shocked me is how they reference the course as easy.... I was under the impression that Crooked Stick was a worthy test, but these guys swear that without wind it is not much of a test ::) ::)

After seeing the photos, I find that hard to believe...

I am not trying to discredit you or your friends, but in 2006 at the US Open qualifier, exactly 1 person shot a 71. Didn't seem real easy to me that day. 76 to a playoff.
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