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Mike Sweeney

Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« on: December 11, 2007, 05:21:30 AM »
Overview - In an area and a state filled with housing development courses where the houses take priority, it was a real treat to play Calusa Pine GC in Naples, Florida. Hurdzan and Fry were the architects and I thought they did an outstanding job on a piece of property that has some very nice elevation change. As H&F say on their website, “The landforms are so soft, and flowing that they blend in well enough to appear natural and unique.  Combined with extensive native plant vegetation it is difficult to imagine the golf course was built, instead of simply laid out on this superb piece of land.” Well there clearly was a bunch of shaping, but it is Florida and it was very well done. No camera this trip, but the Google routing is below.

Off the tee - The course is an extremely fair but tough course. There are a number of options off the tees, but you do need to put your ball in the right spot. Water off the tee comes into play, but it is obvious in all places except for the fourth hole. Some holes are wide and some holes are narrower (not narrow) off the tee. There are 4 sets of tees and in a very good idea, we played a combination set that is rated, and effectively provides a fifth set. There is plenty of length or shortness for all. The tees have a variety of locations so day to day holes will change. Visually off the tee, there are many mental challenges off the tee, but when you get out on the fairway, it is much bigger than it looked.

Greens – Hitting into the greens was a real challenge and required precise iron shots. There was clearly some Pinehurst #2 inspiration where most of the greens were raised and even if you hit the green, it would sometimes roll off. However, there was no unfairness to it, just toughness and I never saw a shot all day where there was a feeling of unfairness. There were no huge turtles in any greens, but all were very interesting to putt and the caddies were very helpful on reads to the first time player. There were many collection areas for chipping and bumping. The conditioning of the greens and the entire course was a case study in near perfect Florida “maintenance meld.”

Routing – Great variety of holes and wind conditions, short fours and fives, very nice variety on the threes, never came close to feeling that you already played that hole which is often the case in Florida. Some towering shots on some tees, that again you do not expect in Florida. Favorite holes included 4. 8. 9, 16 and 18. There may not be any “All World” holes out there, but there was a bunch of very good to great ones.



Off the course – It has all the amenities of what you would expect in a high end golf only private club serving Naples, Florida. Great food, staff, cabins, locker room and showers…….  It is “formal golf”, basically walking only, with maybe a few carts and/or bag carriers late in the day.  The developer is a Cancer Survivor and there was a magazine article on the wall which expressed that his passion for building the course was at least partially driven by his fight against cancer. Certainly some analogies to Mike Strantz at MPCC can be drawn, however the owner is past the important 5 year mark of being cancer-free.

I really have not played much in the Southeast/Palm Beach area of Florida, but I would be surprised if Calusa was not a Top 5 course in the state? Sitting at #58 on the Golf Magazine US list, I am surprised that there is not more talk here as H&F do seem to have some fans here.

Other courses – Took a quick tour of West Bay Club where my friend owns a house. Sounds like a typical Pete Dye Florida housing course. The holes I saw 18 and 9 looked extremely penal but I was assured that there were some more open and fun holes too. Saw Olde Corkscrew the public Nicklaus course in the area, and was told and it looked like a very fun course with some wild greens.

PS. Not sure if it is the bottom of the market, but if you want to buy a condo or a house in Naples, there are plenty of choices in Naples!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 08:19:54 AM by Mike Sweeney »

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 06:44:24 AM »
Mike:

Good analysis,a nd yes you are correct, it is one of the top courses in Florida that I have played. Considering that it was a marsh to begin with, that makes the architectural effort outstanding.

Cary
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

John Mayhugh

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 06:45:57 AM »
I got to play at Calusa just before they closed for summer last year and really enjoyed it.  It's not your typical south Florida course that's for sure.  It is a very natural looking routing and Mike's right when he says there is more room off the tee than first appears.  

Here are a few pictures.  I have several more, but waited too late to label them after my trip so I'll try to get that taken care of soon.

Tee shot on #1.  A gentle dogleg left.  Good starting hole.


Approach shot on 1.  Tough approach shot if you're not in the right side of the fairway.  Easy to go over the green here.



Par 3 third hole.  Green seems really small with all that sand.  We had front left hole location.


This is just in the right rough on #9.  The green is 10 or 15 yards right of the bunker in line with the right edge of the clubhouse.


Par 3 fifteenth.  Long is a disaster.


Approach on #16 from the right rough.


From the fairway on the 18th.  


The 18th green.  This was my favorite hole. The green is wide but not very deep.  The bunkering is very effective.
 

My photos don't really do the course justice.  We actually rode when I played so my photo taking was limited to where my shots ended up.  Not always the best vantage point.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 06:48:28 AM by John Mayhugh »

Donal Breasail

Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 07:31:19 AM »
I LOVE THIS GOLF COURSE.The amount of elevation change on the site is amazing for this area.I must say it also has one of the best practise facilities i have seen anywhere.Great pictures john.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 07:33:00 AM by Don Breasail »

Michael Dugger

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 11:28:29 AM »
I've been curious about this course for a while now, it looks like one of Hurdzan/Fry's best.  

Good to see
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Bob Barriger

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 12:11:04 PM »
Jack, played there last Wednesday with the HP. From our conversations, I doubt a single unaccompanied would be allowed.  But all you can do is try. HP is Mike Balliett who was an Asst. Pro there when they opened, went to West Bay and now is back at Calusa.  There busy season continues into early April and from the middle of January on, outside play is extremely limited.  Everything said in the earlier posts is correct, it probably is one of Hurdzan/Frye's best and easily one of the top courses in Florida

Jonathan McCord

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2007, 12:15:59 PM »
Is Eden Foster not the Head Pro at Calusa anymore?  I thought he was at Calusa in the Winter, and at Maidstone during the Summer months.  Is this no longer the case?  
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Bob Barriger

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2007, 12:19:36 PM »
Eden is still there as Director of Golf, your locations for his summer and winter are still correct. He had a camera crew out there last Wed for some articles he is doing on one of the magazines he represents.

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 12:46:02 PM »
Mike did you have breakfast with Jim Jones? And did you drink the cool aid after the round or at the airport? Yes I think it is the best in Naples area but do not think it is top 5 in Florida.
Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona off the top of my head ride a bit higher in the saddle than the lovely upscale Calusa Pines. I believe the new Coore and Crenshaw will trump it, so to speak, shortly. Hidden Creek in Gulf Breeze is a better design but few see it and conditioning is an issue. So is Shalimar Pointe 15 minutes down the road with the same issues. Toss in one more and it falls from the top 10. I think Bill McBride would vote for Pensacola CC. Many will still give Arnie's course in Orlando a vote over it as well. Then there is where Tiger lives.

Mike Sweeney

Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 01:57:56 PM »

Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona

To the Man of Purple and Gold,

Of the ones I know, it is a good neighborhood. I may have been blinded by all the For Sale signs in Naples, but I have to say I agree with Bobby Ginn when he talks about the Baby Boomer demographics in the Southeast:

http://www.executivegolfermagazine.com/articles/bobbyginn.html

Eventually people will move into the houses they bought on Spec, or the next guy will.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 02:00:06 PM »
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.

Mike Sweeney

Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 02:06:33 PM »
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.

We were on those split tees, so I don't remember if we were 1 or 2 tees up on 18. It was a 280 carry over the bunker on the corner from our tee. I did not even remember any water on 18 until you said it. You would have to really hit one to get there and at that point it would be a pretty bad shot right.

PS. 18 is a short Par 5, playing around 535 for us.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 02:12:07 PM by Mike Sweeney »

james soper

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 03:54:26 PM »
Yes I think it is the best in Naples area but do not think it is top 5 in Florida.
Seminole, Mountain Lake, TPC, World Woods, Jupiter Hills, The Consession, Black Diamond and Lake Nona off the top of my head ride a bit higher in the saddle than the lovely upscale Calusa Pines.


you can add into that mix indian creek, pine tree, and old memorial.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2007, 05:00:52 PM by james soper »

Michael Ryan

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2007, 04:47:12 PM »
In regards to 18, yes there is water on the outside of the dogleg, but in my two trips there I got the sense that if someone plays the proper tees, the water isn't in play.  The strategy is to place a drive as close to the bunkers on the left to give yourself a chance to get home.  Only a pushed drive from the wrong set of tees could end up in the water.  The driving range is adjacent to the hole on the left, but the trees and brush provide a very good buffer.  The only reason I could tell there was a driving range on the other side of the trees was that I could hear Rocco Mediate holding court on the back of the range while practicing.  Don't think much can muffle that noise, just kidding.

John Mayhugh

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2007, 05:09:53 PM »
Mike:

I have not played the course, but thank you for including the aerial photo.

Looking at the aerial, I am surprised the 18th hole is so well liked, with water on the outside of the dogleg and the hole playing around the driving range.  I guess the comments are really more about the earthmoving and shaping (compared to elsewhere in Florida) than about how the holes fit.
This aerial is another great example of how different things can look from the ground.  I played three rounds at CP and never noticed either the range left or water right on #18.  That's saying something since I don't drive the ball very accurately and usually notice all the trouble.

Kris Spence

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2007, 06:31:45 PM »
A neat story on Calusa Pines.  Back when CP was developed, I  provided consulting services for the construction team Course Doctors (Jeff Karsner) and the owner on material selection, construction details, quality control, budget management etc.  It was a great gig during the winter.

Anyway, the original budget called for 275,000 sf of sand bunker construction for the entire project.  Dana Fry painted out the first bunker to be constructed, the one you see that touches holes 3,4,5 which measured somewhere near 400,000 + sf.  I got a kick out of seeing the Managers face when we submitted the first billing.  I dont remember the final total but it was well over a million feet I think of sand.  

I havent been back since the course was opened for play but have heard many good things  about it.  Jeff Karsner and his partner at the time Steve Coe contributed heavily to the design of CP.  The rest was Dana and the owner Gary Chinsoff.  Hurdzan visited briefly on one occasion after it had been grassed if I remember correctly.

mark chalfant

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2007, 06:48:23 PM »
Mike
Thanks for the excellent report. For those you spoke with, was there a consesus that Calusa Pines compares favorably with Naples National in terms of inspiring golf design  ?

Anthony_Nysse

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2007, 07:18:42 PM »
Kris,
  COngrads on your work at Cape Fear and it being reconized by Golf Digest. I heard alot about it duringmy time at Long Cove.

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Colonial CC
Ft. Worth, TX
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2007, 08:31:47 PM »
I played both Naples National and Calusa Pines.  I thought both were good but Calusa is wonderful.  The elevation changes and the way the course weaves it way around the property are terrific.  There is one short par four uphill that I really liked.  I can't remember what hoe it was though.  My memory for holes isn't what it used to be.
Thanks for the pictures.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida New
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 04:32:19 PM »
Thought I would as to this thread my favorite picture as I caddy here.  ;)

This picture is from the 16th Tee-Box looking over to 18th green/clubhouse.

Would be happy to answer any questions anyone has as well.

John you got some great shots above, however, what you have down as 15+16 is really 16+17 fyi.

Right now the course is under major water restrictions and is browning out but I took these earlier this year right as the fescue peaked pink/purple.

Edit - Not sure how to post the pictures better as John did above let me know if there is a way.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 12:05:27 AM by Patrick Hodgdon »
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Mike Sweeney

Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 06:02:29 PM »
John you got some great shots above, however, what you have down as 15+16 is really 17+18 fyi.



Just curious if anyone can see John's pics? I now can't see them in MS or Foxfire. However my routing is there.

John Mayhugh

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Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 06:05:23 PM »
I'll have to take Patrick's word on the hole numbering.  He's spent a lot more time there than I had.

Mike, my pics show up OK viewing the site on Firefox.

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 06:35:16 PM »
No big deal John I couldn't remember the numbers myself after the first time!

How did you post the pics within your post and not attach them at the bottom?
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

John Mayhugh

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Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 06:42:57 PM »
No big deal John I couldn't remember the numbers myself after the first time!

How did you post the pics within your post and not attach them at the bottom?
I just clicked on the photobucket image links and pasted those in the appropriate places.  Took me a while to figure out how to post pics.  It sounds like the new version of the board may be a bit more photo posting friendly.

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions I can help with.

I'm sure we would all love to see more Calusa pics.

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Calusa Pines GC - Naples, Florida New
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 07:37:57 PM »
Ok lets try it now:

#1 Par-4 Approach. This often will play as the toughest hole on the course. Green Falls away back left and front right.



#2 Par-5 Approach. Plays uphill and has a nasty front-right false front. Not uncommon to see guys putt off the green if the pin is front-right.



#9 Par-4 Green. Another very tough hole. Rocco Mediate likes to play this hole from the 16th tee (where I snapped this picture) which makes it a 500 yard par-4. Water runs through the fairway there which is hittable down wind from the member tees.



#16 Par-3 Tee. Awesome golf hole. Thats the 3rd tree they've had on the right side. The 2nd was the best and was much bigger but Hurricane Wilma had other plans. The club almost had to use a helicopter to put the new one in. (Quote was $25,000) Ultimately used a large crane.



View from 16-tee. This is my favorite pic which is posted above. And also a more panoramic one below. 50 ft of elevation from this spot. They added the American flag next to the clubhouse this year which I really like. Nice time of day to be coming in.



Par-3 16 down left, Par-5 18 middle, Par-4 9 right


16th Green from 18 Fariway. Shows a little of the elevation they built here. Also can see how the green slopes front to back which causes a lot of people to hit over. (If I'm not caddying for them anyway :)) The top right of the 2nd pic is where I took the previous pics (16 tee).






18 Par-5 Approach. Rounding the corner on 18 fairway.



18 Par-5 Approach/Green/Clubhouse. Great picture of the clubhouse which sits on about 20 feet of fill. Great finishing hole which Gary wanted designed to be an easy par-5 so everyone would leave with a smile. Helps us caddies so I can't complain.  ;)

« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 10:53:20 PM by Patrick Hodgdon »
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

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