[Patrick Kiser]

Finally finished reading the retrospective on Royal County Down.  Most excellent volume.

I have to say the 17th (aka The Pond) seems so out of character with the rest of the course with that pond in the middle of the fairway.  A triangle no less.

I initially thought this must have been a more recent "change", but in fact it dates way back.  It's not clear either if the pond was man made or not.

I'm not interested to know if people agree with my assessment or not.  Just my opinion.

However ... it would be interesting to see if there are any GCAers out there that feel there are classics (or modern) with significant "out of character" features.  Features that really feel foreign to the rest of the course design.  Features that were implemented some time ago as part of the original design or even after the course would have first opened ... yet still feel out of place today.

Thoughts?  

[Greg Krueger]

Not that it is out of place or bad, the bunker in the middle of
the green on the 6th @ Riviera. It is so reveered by so many
people.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Patrick,
The famed Duke's Challenge in Vancouver, Washington has, or once had a pond in the middle of one of it's greens. It also had a green that sloped into an even bigger lake; an alternate tee that required you to take some stepping stones out to a tee, actually built on Lake Vancouver, as well as pear, plum and apple trees in the middle of fairways.

To this day, I don't think I have ever been on better maintained putting surfaces in my life.

[Bill_McBride]

Finally finished reading the retrospective on Royal County Down.  Most excellent volume.

I have to say the 17th (aka The Pond) seems so out of character with the rest of the course with that pond in the middle of the fairway.  A triangle no less.

I initially thought this must have been a more recent "change", but in fact it dates way back.  It's not clear either if the pond was man made or not.

I'm not interested to know if people agree with my assessment or not.  Just my opinion.

However ... it would be interesting to see if there are any GCAers out there that feel there are classics (or modern) with significant "out of character" features.  Features that really feel foreign to the rest of the course design.  Features that were implemented some time ago as part of the original design or even after the course would have first opened ... yet still feel out of place today.

Thoughts?  

The pond was indeed out of character at #17 RCD but (1) it isn't very big, and (2) is not in play for mortal humans.  A couple of the Walker Cuppers had to hit 3-woods to be sure and stay short, but from the 450 yard tee it wasn't a big deal.

It certainly wasn't offensive, just sort of unanticipated!

[Tom Renli]

The other pieces that contribute to any critisism of this great course are:

* 16, the driveable par four is so so
* 18, a strong par 5 has been weaken by technology, ie, eagle finish in the Walker Cup
* the finishing holes are all away from the water and less dramatic

[Jordan Wall]

Patrick,
The famed Duke's Challenge in Vancouver, Washington has, or once had a pond in the middle of one of it's greens. It also had a green that sloped into an even bigger lake; an alternate tee that required you to take some stepping stones out to a tee, actually built on Lake Vancouver, as well as pear, plum and apple trees in the middle of fairways.

To this day, I don't think I have ever been on better maintained putting surfaces in my life.

Tommy,

Is the course, in its previous form, a NLE?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jordan,
It is to my understanding that some things have changed, things softened, etc., all since the passing of Duke Wager. Whether this is true or not, I do not know, but I will tell you this, if there should ever be a GCA gathering of some type in the Portland area, and I was there, I would clobber a few people over the head and drag them out there for some fun. The place was a kick.

[Jordan Wall]

Tommy, thats too bad, I don't think I could give some of my friends enough crap about putting into a water hazrds.

Besides that, it's just such an absolutely original concept, even in today's crazy golf world where 90% of all courses have man made water hazards.

But interesting.
I'll have to check it out!

Happy Holidays!!

Jordan

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jordan,
See if the following Link works and you can view the oblique of Duke's for yourself.

The smalll pond is no longer in the middle of the 8th green, and a lot of other features have sort of overgrown. Stuff That Duke would maintain to a level, just to punish. Make that severely punish!

Note the 1st green: the bunker at the very back of the green; well the putting surface slopes right into and feeds that bunker! Sort of like an evil Redan, concocted by a maniac who on first sight looked like a mad professor (Insane) Duke was quite a character!

Still, the course looks with-in it's character, and mind you what a character it is! One of the GREAT days in my life was 18 at Heron Lakes, a quick drive up to Dukes where I played 27; 9 by myself and the other 18 with Duke, whom soundly defeated in match play. It was a kick!

[Bill_McBride]

The other pieces that contribute to any critisism of this great course are:

* 16, the driveable par four is so so
* 18, a strong par 5 has been weaken by technology, ie, eagle finish in the Walker Cup
* the finishing holes are all away from the water and less dramatic

Tom, have you seen Steele's new 16th hole?  It's just a couple of years old and runs straight away from #15, not at right angles.  It's a dandy short par 4, with a crowned green with very difficult pin locations.

#18 is 550 from the tips.  I was maybe 20' from Jonathan Moore when he hit that 252 yard 4-iron and it may be the best golf shot I've ever seen.  He hit a stinger than never went more than 20' off the ground; his Walker Cup teammates who had come out to watch him finish started jumping up and down the instant he hit the shot, it was so pure and straight.

There really weren't that many birdies on the hole during the matches, it is a very tough hole.

Agreed the finishing holes are away from the water, but you never really see much of the water with the big dune line along the waterside of the course.

It is a truly fine course, worthy of its Top 5 in the world ranking.  One great hole after another.  Rule of thumb:  short and straight is the only miss to consider!

[Matthew Hunt]

#18 is 550 from the tips.  I was maybe 20' from Jonathan Moore when he hit that 252 yard 4-iron and it may be the best golf shot I've ever seen.  He hit a stinger than never went more than 20' off the ground; his Walker Cup teammates who had come out to watch him finish started jumping up and down the instant he hit the shot, it was so pure and straight.

There really weren't that many birdies on the hole during the matches, it is a very tough hole.

That was one of the finest shots of all time and I feel lucky to have witnesed it in person.

Ps. Got the book last Christmas and its in my personal top 5 books and i'm quite well read for someone of my age.

[Matthew Hunt]

Bumped up a past thread

[Bill_McBride]

#18 is 550 from the tips.  I was maybe 20' from Jonathan Moore when he hit that 252 yard 4-iron and it may be the best golf shot I've ever seen.  He hit a stinger than never went more than 20' off the ground; his Walker Cup teammates who had come out to watch him finish started jumping up and down the instant he hit the shot, it was so pure and straight.

There really weren't that many birdies on the hole during the matches, it is a very tough hole.

That was one of the finest shots of all time and I feel lucky to have witnesed it in person.

Ps. Got the book last Christmas and its in my personal top 5 books and i'm quite well read for someone of my age.

Matthew, I'm sorry we didn't have a chance to meet at RCD.  That was a marvelous event!  Merry Christmas!

[Matthew Hunt]

Bill I was going to try and meet you but I working. You might have seen me having to re-rake the bunkers a driving range as some sweet young children  decided it smart to play in the bunkers> while sundays last group waited on the tee.

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