[Jed Peters]

I was just thinking this the other day when reading TD's thread about building modern courses under 7k yards.

Many of the "new" style tournament courses I go to can be characterized as "big".

Take Morgan Creek (Sacramento, CA), a course I am most familiar with.

My dad (member at Contra Costa Country Club) is a regular walker at his course. While morgan creek is TOTALLY walkable, he commented that the course feels "big" and tires him out. The length is not the issue--he plays the same tees he'd play at his club, but it is the sheer SCALE on which the course is built that make it feel big.

Other courses share the same "scale" that I've played....but I can tell you this--there's a great feeling in playing a course like pasatiempo compared to these new big courses.....and yet again, you have to say that the new courses and their "scale" is pretty damn fun to play.

Maybe this is drivel, maybe it's got merit...thoughts?

[Tom_Doak]

Jed:

I am not sure I understand your point.  Surely, most new courses have been designed at a "big" scale compared to anything 30-50 years ago.

In your analysis of walking your home course, are you sure you have it right?  I'll assume your dad's course is not as long as the one you belong to now ... it was probably designed at 6400 yards, and if it's been lengthened, you have to walk BACK to those tees ... so his walk is shorter and yours is longer.  Whereas your new course is laid out for 7000 yards, so your dad might well have to walk 600 yards farther between greens and tees than you do.  Even if you're walking the same 7000 yards total, his will seem more tiring because he's got nothing to do in those 600 yards.  That is just one of the problems with building all courses at 7000.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Overall, I can't comment favourably on any course that tires a majority of golfers out over 18 holes under normal conditions (wind can beat you up, for example). I prefer courses where after holing out on the home green you're tempted to play again.

[Kyle Henderson]

What is the Contra Costa CC course like, Jed? Who designed it? Is it hilly? I hear very little of it, despite my East Bay residency.

[Jed Peters]

Jed:

I am not sure I understand your point.  Surely, most new courses have been designed at a "big" scale compared to anything 30-50 years ago.

In your analysis of walking your home course, are you sure you have it right?  I'll assume your dad's course is not as long as the one you belong to now ... it was probably designed at 6400 yards, and if it's been lengthened, you have to walk BACK to those tees ... so his walk is shorter and yours is longer.  Whereas your new course is laid out for 7000 yards, so your dad might well have to walk 600 yards farther between greens and tees than you do.  Even if you're walking the same 7000 yards total, his will seem more tiring because he's got nothing to do in those 600 yards.  That is just one of the problems with building all courses at 7000.

I'm thinking of more of a "feeling", Tom.

These new "tournament-style" courses have a tendency to wear you out if you're 64 and used to walking an old-style course like Orinda Country Club or Pasatiempo (those you may be familiar with in the NorCal area for comparison) or even Olympic Club or Lake Merced with adjoining fairways, places to leave your bag between holes (bring your putter, maybe a wedge and the next tee club) and the like.

I think with the new style of course, it is difficult to create a sense of intimacy, whereas when you can "see" the other parts of the golf course, there is just a certain feeling one gets.

I'm not saying one style is better than another (both are nice) but they just elicit different feelings.

[Jed Peters]

What is the Contra Costa CC course like, Jed? Who designed it? Is it hilly? I hear very little of it, despite my East Bay residency.

Kyle:

Contra Costa is an old layout designed by the original founders of the club in the 40s or 50s. The greens were done by pascuzzo in the 90s.

Some have strong dislike for the course (Joel Stewart made that clear when we played with him) and some are somewhat apathetic towards its design.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan, but I understand its "place". My dad has his friends there, he's got his regular game, all his buddies, and he's now set there.

While I wish he kept his name on the Orinda CC wait list (my grandfather was the first italian member there--1947!) TWICE taking his name off just prior to getting in (only because I could get in as a legacy) I understand the place that Contra Costa has in my dad's life and the importance as such.

I'd gladly play there with him any time!

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